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Racism? Umm No, not on my watch!

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Re: Racism? Umm No, not on my watch!

Post by erica21 on Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:45 am

Oh yes you are right Perry - I was more thinking along the lines of having a poster with this message at a free kids event at my kids school next month. Thought it would just remind kids of good behavior when I'll be painting as fast as I can (need to practice faster) and being line manager all at once! Though I do hope to rope in a few older kids to help me out on the day! (In exchange for a little paint at the end!)
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Re: Racism? Umm No, not on my watch!

Post by Peachymango on Sat Apr 21, 2012 6:38 pm

Actually I think bullies and rude people will be sent to the back of the line is great for good behaviour. And the children police it too.
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Re: Racism? Umm No, not on my watch!

Post by Psalmbook on Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:01 pm

artyfacesbyluz wrote:I don't think something like that is gonna happen to me, I am black and Spanish, so a racist kid will never want to be painted by me.

Well, it would be their loss! You are a very talented artist! Very Happy

Can I just say I LOVE DIVERSITY! I've learned so much about people, the world & so many cultures between going on missions trips and from my culturally & racially diverse group of church gals & do life with!
Not to mention all the different countries & races ya'll are! I am blessed indeed Very Happy
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Re: Racism? Umm No, not on my watch!

Post by Perry Noia on Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:29 pm

bullies being sent to the back is a much better tactic in my opinion Very Happy
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Re: Racism? Umm No, not on my watch!

Post by Tuli* on Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:32 am

I hate bullies & racist Ppl, I work at a high school & oh boy is there bulling! I'm pretty strict (not when I fp) so the Kids know better Evil or Very Mad
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Re: Racism? Umm No, not on my watch!

Post by LoriSamson on Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:00 am

I think if I was the parent removing my kid from the chair... it would be to take him to a bathroom and give him a good spanking! Sorry, if your liberal and don't believe in spanking. I'm old school and I don't believe in abuse but I firmly believe in a good swat on the fanny when needed!
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Re: Racism? Umm No, not on my watch!

Post by TheGildedCat on Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:19 am

Since when did political leaning have an influence on personal child rearing techniques? Sheesh! Rolling Eyes
You'd better believe if I had to remove my child from an activity due to poor behavior, there would be immediate, and well-timed consequences, hahaha.
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Re: Racism? Umm No, not on my watch!

Post by CottonKandyClown on Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:10 am

Sooo sad! This day and age people should've grown up by now!

We are just different shades of beige Smile

Honestly, I'd rather paint a darker skinned child. The paint always pops and looks amazing! Very Happy
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Re: Racism? Umm No, not on my watch!

Post by LoriSamson on Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:47 am

I'm in an area where there are tons of Native Americans and my favorite is my neon rainbow cake and the Tag pearl pink on them. Looks awesome on their darker "beige"!
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Re: Racism? Umm No, not on my watch!

Post by HillbillyDiva1 on Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:55 pm

LoriSamson wrote:I think if I was the parent removing my kid from the chair... it would be to take him to a bathroom and give him a good spanking! Sorry, if your liberal and don't believe in spanking. I'm old school and I don't believe in abuse but I firmly believe in a good swat on the fanny when needed!
Parenting style should suit the child not the parent. Had my Daughter been different she would have been spanked. When she started to crawl she headed straight for the dog dish and I spanked her and she laughed so I knew after that spanking wouldn't work for her. You can't just go for time outs because you don't want to take things away or spank. By the way when she was ten she sat on a hair brush she left in the car and didn't even know it till she got out of the car at school. I have known many children that would have benefited from spanking.When I painted at SDC I have a beige girl that came every year and had me paint her face till she was around 12. Her grandparents brought her to the park and I think probably one of them died or her parents divorced. I still have her picture somewhere on my computer with roses on her cheek.
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Re: Racism? Umm No, not on my watch!

Post by Fun Frog on Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:17 pm

Reminds me of when my children were still at Cathloic private school (even though our family is not, with many races). I asked 16yr son, "Where is your new friend Shivanka from? Thinking I was going to get his original country of origin. But with no hesitatin my son simply said, "Over in Belmont", (an joining suburb). He never even thought of anything different. I had to rephrase the question, "What is his family's background with a name Shivanka?" Must have done something right as they were growing up. Smile Shiv and his family are from Sri Lanka and how an old family friends.
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Re: Racism? Umm No, not on my watch!

Post by LeilaniMassage on Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:25 pm

Thank you for this thread.

I was just thinking about racism and facepainting as I was checking out the facebook sites listed in another thread and one of the painters had a picture of work they'd done that included doing "blackface" and what is considered by many a painful reminder of segregation and slavery in an Aunt Jemima scenario and another their design that includes "blackface" and caricature of the culture an African woman including "making fun" of saggy breasts. A good explanation of why not to use Aunt Jamima imagery http://www.petitiononline.com/aj461153/petition.html

As a new face painter, I wondered if it was common for folks to want a painting that perpetuates racism like making caricatures of other people's cultures? Like this kind of thing? http://www.islamophobiatoday.com/2011/10/25/were-a-culture-not-a-costume-students-launch-poster-campaign-against-racist-halloween-costumes/

I'm wondering how I want to address or talk about it to customers and to others in general.
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Re: Racism? Umm No, not on my watch!

Post by amylady222 on Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:49 pm

I live in a small town with almost 50 50 white hispanic and one little black boy---there is still some racism here and it makes me so mad when I am out with his mom and strangers ask her--"Why are you here? you're black"

I can't believe some people and like everyone said before it is a learned behavior! I wish I lived in a more culturally diverse area!but until then I will keep standing up for my friend and her little boy.

I think anyone that says something and doesn't ignor it or pretend they didn't hear it should be rewarded! Great job ladies!

There is a great song in the musical South Pacific--"you have to be taught to hate and fear."
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Re: Racism? Umm No, not on my watch!

Post by mamakatrien on Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:59 am

It is only by reading your stories that I know fully understand how exceptional it must be to have a black president. I am shocked to read how profoundly personal the racism is, I was not aware that it was still happening at the level of another color "being dirty" or even "contagious".
I Belgium too there is an uprise of right-wing politics, but this is mostly for economical reasons, I have never heard any such comments as you have encountered. Also, we have an openly gay first minister ( ~president), which was not a big deal at all, never was an issue during election time.
What a great forum this is! It broadens my horizon in soo many ways! Thanks!
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Re: Racism? Umm No, not on my watch!

Post by Lady Jayde on Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:28 am

LeilaniMassage wrote:Thank you for this thread.

I was just thinking about racism and facepainting as I was checking out the facebook sites listed in another thread and one of the painters had a picture of work they'd done that included doing "blackface" and what is considered by many a painful reminder of segregation and slavery in an Aunt Jemima scenario and another their design that includes "blackface" and caricature of the culture an African woman including "making fun" of saggy breasts. A good explanation of why not to use Aunt Jamima imagery http://www.petitiononline.com/aj461153/petition.html

As a new face painter, I wondered if it was common for folks to want a painting that perpetuates racism like making caricatures of other people's cultures? Like this kind of thing? http://www.islamophobiatoday.com/2011/10/25/were-a-culture-not-a-costume-students-launch-poster-campaign-against-racist-halloween-costumes/

I'm wondering how I want to address or talk about it to customers and to others in general.

No Leilani, it isn't common, but there sometimes requests are made. When the request is made it is up to the artist to decide whether he/she is being tasked with doing something that could be perceived as harmful or insensitive or it there is a more altruistic reason for the request. The painter in question was commissioned to do the artwork as a part of a UK Convention satire about Hollywood stereotypes of African/African Americans. The project was vetted by many (including others of African descent) before the task was undertaken as the painter wanted to ensure that no line was crossed. I didn't take offense to it, but I know the heart of the painter and why it was being done and for whom. It's really easy to shoot from the hip and automatically think of the negative in these situations, but as an educated African American woman I am able to see past the cover of the book and perhaps even delve a bit further to find out more about the plot line.

The best way to address the issue with a client is by direct approach but with tact. The best way to approach and artist is the same way, but with a mind to understand that wrong or right (in you eyes) the artist reserves the right to persue her artistic freedom. There's always a story but we have to take the time to figure out what it is and it's best if that's done before the first stone is picked up.
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Re: Racism? Umm No, not on my watch!

Post by Kammy on Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:42 am

To those of you who've been confronted with racism whilst face painting, I'm very impressed with how you responded. Bigotry of any type (racism, sexism, homophobia and so on) gets my back up, so I'm glad I haven't been asked to paint children like that yet. Sadly, though, we live in a world where it will almost certainly happen at some point, and when it does....I hope I handle it in as calm and educational a way as you did.

xx
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Re: Racism? Umm No, not on my watch!

Post by LeilaniMassage on Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:34 pm

@ Lady Jayde _ I agree completely with you which is why I emailed that specific artist privately and didn't link or go into that here. I was trying to understand the larger issues and therefore asking in the forum. Did you feel I misspoke here or shot anyone?

I am dedicated to making my career and my art embody my anti-oppression values so this is important to me for many reasons. So far I have not run into this in painting and wanted some input. Thanks all.
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Re: Racism? Umm No, not on my watch!

Post by Lady Jayde on Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:47 am

LeilaniMassage wrote:@ Lady Jayde _ I agree completely with you which is why I emailed that specific artist privately and didn't link or go into that here. I was trying to understand the larger issues and therefore asking in the forum. Did you feel I misspoke here or shot anyone?

I am dedicated to making my career and my art embody my anti-oppression values so this is important to me for many reasons. So far I have not run into this in painting and wanted some input. Thanks all.



No Leilani, I don't think that your curiosity is is misplaced, nor do I think it's wrong to broach the topic if your concern and curiosity are geniune.

The gray area of offense come when you couch your question within a thread that discusses overt displays of racism and racists and could be considered a shot across the bow of the artist in question. If your question is benign and not accusatory, it would probably have be better to start a new topic and that way your concerns and curiosity would be seen as just that and not a subtle finger pointing. As it stands, the artist is question isn't a racist and to my knowledge has never entertained the desire to be one so it was your manner of delivery that gave pause more so than the package itself.
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Re: Racism? Umm No, not on my watch!

Post by Facepainting by Tina on Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:58 am

I have no problem telling people NO! I hate (one of the only things I will say I hate too, because it's such a STRONG word) racism...it is one thing (bullying too) that makes my blood boil. I grew up (In Washington D.C.) in a predominantly black school (I'm white) and didn't realize I was any different until I was about 9 yrs. old. My mom used to laugh at me because I was always afraid my hair would break if I washed it everyday. My husband (also white) grew up (in New Jersey) the same way in a predominantly black school. God knew what He was doing, and my husband and I have such a heart for inner city african american communities and are waiting for God to call us to be missionaries in an inner city somewhere. I was on the receiving end, as was my huband, of being the "minority", so I know and understand what that feels like...and it's not a good feeling! Everything is 100 times harder, simple things like making friends by introducing yourself to someone, helping someone pick up something they dropped, reaching out a hand to help up someone who fell down....were all greeted with hostility and anger and more often than not turned into a fist fight. A world full of people with the same skin color would be so boring and just not nearly as beautiful.

I have been aked to put rediculous things on cakes in my business, and I flat out refuse. I have religious convictions that bring me to refuse things that most people wouldn't take issue with, but it's MY business and I have the right to refuse anyone's request! Most people respect that I don't want to do "naughty cakes" and don't want to write blasphemy on a cake...but there are some that chew me out and yell and scream....but whatever. I feel like everything I have (including my cake business and its success) are given by God and I won't do anything (even for work) that I feel dishonors God, that's my choice!

And if I encounter anything like the OP explained...I would eject the kid from my line and refuse to paint him, no end of the line...just....you're done! Out of my line! I will not stand for racism, not now, not ever. I don't care if it was still prevelent in the world, it's not going on in my line or in my presence without everyone in a 2 mile radius finding out what I think about it lol
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Re: Racism? Umm No, not on my watch!

Post by Lady Jayde on Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:48 am

Tina Halstead wrote:I have no problem telling people NO! I hate (one of the only things I will say I hate too, because it's such a STRONG word) racism...it is one thing (bullying too) that makes my blood boil. I grew up (In Washington D.C.) in a predominantly black school (I'm white) and didn't realize I was any different until I was about 9 yrs. old. My mom used to laugh at me because I was always afraid my hair would break if I washed it everyday. My husband (also white) grew up (in New Jersey) the same way in a predominantly black school. God knew what He was doing, and my husband and I have such a heart for inner city african american communities and are waiting for God to call us to be missionaries in an inner city somewhere. I was on the receiving end, as was my huband, of being the "minority", so I know and understand what that feels like...and it's not a good feeling! Everything is 100 times harder, simple things like making friends by introducing yourself to someone, helping someone pick up something they dropped, reaching out a hand to help up someone who fell down....were all greeted with hostility and anger and more often than not turned into a fist fight. A world full of people with the same skin color would be so boring and just not nearly as beautiful.

I have been aked to put rediculous things on cakes in my business, and I flat out refuse. I have religious convictions that bring me to refuse things that most people wouldn't take issue with, but it's MY business and I have the right to refuse anyone's request! Most people respect that I don't want to do "naughty cakes" and don't want to write blasphemy on a cake...but there are some that chew me out and yell and scream....but whatever. I feel like everything I have (including my cake business and its success) are given by God and I won't do anything (even for work) that I feel dishonors God, that's my choice!

And if I encounter anything like the OP explained...I would eject the kid from my line and refuse to paint him, no end of the line...just....you're done! Out of my line! I will not stand for racism, not now, not ever. I don't care if it was still prevelent in the world, it's not going on in my line or in my presence without everyone in a 2 mile radius finding out what I think about it lol



cheerscheerscheers You're the bee's knees! cheerscheerscheers

I commend you on your stance. There are so many who would ignore the situation or try to somehow make it work to avoid embarrassment, confrontation or lost revenue, I admire that you can see the greater picture and that you are willing to stand your ground.
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Re: Racism? Umm No, not on my watch!

Post by LeilaniMassage on Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:08 pm

Lady Jayde - thanks for the clarification.

I am new to the threads and didn't know I needed to start a new discussion thread to discuss racism, "blackface", and caricatures of other people's cultures. I had thought I was supposed to do a topic search and see if anyone had already started that kind of conversation. So, I did a topic search and thought this was a good place to continue that conversation and where the folks would have some ideas or input on the topics above. I am again still not discussing any particular artist but rather topics that came up for me after viewing some FP art.

I have no problem with direct communication, and I always do that first with individuals where I never accuse or call anyone a racist but rather taking the time to share my personal experience as a Person of Color who daily experiences racism. I think it is a gift to offer my heartfelt experience. It's part of my daily spiritual practice to practice compassion and to consider how I want to be a positive influence in my community and in the world.

I am curious if I should now stop posting here and start a new topic because of your comments. Clearly you have more experience on this forum.

If that is the case, I just want to thank you all the posters here. I'm so thrilled hearing how you live by your values and how it influences your decision making.

@ Tina - thank you for your passionate and personal sharing. I hadn't thought of your cake business but that totally makes sense. Thank you again.
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Re: Racism? Umm No, not on my watch!

Post by Lady Jayde on Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:00 am

LeilaniMassage wrote:Lady Jayde - thanks for the clarification...

I am curious if I should now stop posting here and start a new topic because of your comments. Clearly you have more experience on this forum...


Um...thanks?

This forum is a great place for discussing what goes on in the industry and to garner tried and true advice about maneuvering the quagmire of face painting. While we do sometimes have heated discussion, okay...sometimes the incendiary nature of some of our discussions reach super nova capacity, for the most part we are all glitter farts and unicorns here. When we touch on topics about how the depravity of man is touching us in our face painting we generally discuss it and move on. Those types of discussions, while sometimes necessary from an education and awareness standpoint, can put a serious damper the atmosphere of insanely happy paintiness here because, truth or not, it's darkness and you don't have to discuss darkness to death in order to be aware of its presence. Many come here or even to face painting to escape darkness, hence the moving on part. Politics is another briefly touched on and left in the dust topic here and rightfully so. We do what we do, for the most part, because it brings joy to us or others and yes, the money is helpful. Revisiting darkness already laid to rest in the discussion arena is counter intuitive in my opinion.

I am of the opinion that creating another thread to discuss your inquiry after your question has been answered (even if only by me) would lead me to believe that there's an agenda behind the inquiry. I applaud your staunch support of equality and vehement distain of anything oppressive. However, I don't see a lot of value in dredging up a 6 month old thread to use as a platform for revisiting the topic of racism in the industry unless you have a face painting related experience that would warrant bringing the topic to the board. Opinions are like teeth; most people have tons of them, so please don't think that I perceive my opinion to be that of the majority. Since the particulars of the images that have lit this particular fire for you have been explained, I don't understand why you would want to continue to discuss it here. I am of the opinion that it is time to move on.
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Re: Racism? Umm No, not on my watch!

Post by Appren on Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:08 pm

for the most part we are all glitter farts and unicorns here

Whilst I'm sure glitter farts are lovely and all, I'm just putting it out there, I'm definitely a Unicorn....
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Re: Racism? Umm No, not on my watch!

Post by HillbillyDiva1 on Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:48 am

Who want's to be a horny horse when you can fart glitter. Factoyed : The Southern term "Having the Vapors" is in fact farting. The ladies would excuse themselves to the powder room to lift up their hoop skirts to get rid of the smell. Remember that the next time you watch Gone With the Wind. Just got back from painting at a Zombie Prom was the guy dresses as a 300 lb harem girl racist? No he was having fun at a Halloween party. Do I get offended when Taylor Perry dresses up like a fat women no because he's funny and not mean about it.I'm sure the person painting the black-faced person on a canvas thought it was art in the 20s or 30s just because it's 2012 doesn't nullify it as art now. Yes as face painters we have things we will not paint because of our personal beliefs but I don't want anybody but my client telling what I can't paint.
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