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Reactions to paint

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Re: Reactions to paint

Post by Metina on Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:05 am

Your not ingesting it. What would that matter! It never ceases to amaze me how some people like to stir up conflict when there is absolutely none.

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Re: Reactions to paint

Post by sparklingfaces on Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:43 am

SO I have a rant / question.

I am doing henna at a festival this weekend and wanted to stop by a face painting booth and kinda of check out their designs and prices
I have never face painted at a festival - just private parties so I have no idea what to charge single faces and cheek designs. So I was looking for a general idea - anyways - off topic.

They were using those wood paints you get at walmart in the craft section for $1 !!!
This really made me uneasy and upset - I just ask " are those the paints you use?" the lady said yes, and I asked if they were safe for little kids faces and she kind of gave me an evil look and said " yes they are, they are safe and non toxic, it come right off with soap and water."

So I know the discussion is on actual professional grade face paints and reactions to them. But what about reactions to those Americana paints?
Has any one seen/ heard of/ read about any reactions to those?

I guess I can kinda of understand how people would like using them as they dont stain your face - but I dunno - just the thought of paint made for wood on kids faces gives me the hee-bee gee-beeies
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Re: Reactions to paint

Post by Metina on Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:34 am

What I tell people is that "Yes those are non-toxic when used as intended. On a brush on wood. Or other intended purpose. Not on a child near eyes and mouths."

At the end of the day, if people want to risk it, who are we to beat our heads against a wall? I would merely mention to the event organizer and let it go. After all it is there job to make sure the vendors are behaving as they should.

That being said, my kids paint with the kid paint all the time and get it everywhere. And of course have face painted each other since they see me doing it(without my knowledge of course). So far no reaction, but there is always a first time.

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Re: Reactions to paint

Post by aprilmoonflower on Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:42 am

I read about the stories on the FP list about the burns. I am really leary of using anything but Snaz now on kids..
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Re: Reactions to paint

Post by Metina on Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:45 am

Here is a good article from the FDA. Weirdly it doesn't mention UV reactive paint only glow in the dark and day glo colors.

This should be carefully read and researched.

http://www.fda.gov/Cosmetics/ProductandIngredientSafety/ProductInformation/ucm143055.htm

It mentions theses reds: Red No. 21, No. 22, No. 27 and No. 28 Are there others?

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Re: Reactions to paint

Post by aprilmoonflower on Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:45 am

Her child might have gluten sensitivities/allergies. In which case I would definitely CYA. I have heard of kids reacting to corn in CARPET that were allergic. (yes carpet is made with corn fibers nowadays just like plastic bags, disposable cups,etc) even some extreme cases of peanut allergies work this way. (why some folks are trying to ban peanuts on planes) Some kids with extreme cases can't even be in the vacinity of kids EATING peanut butter.


Metina wrote:Your not ingesting it. What would that matter! It never ceases to amaze me how some people like to stir up conflict when there is absolutely none.
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Re: Reactions to paint

Post by Metina on Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:48 am

The burn thing has my puzzled as I have always been told and experienced face paint as a sort of sunscreen. I have had designs on my arm during long festivals and was burnt everywhere except there and they all had Wolfe Black in them.

Also, is parafin wax different from beeswax. DFX lists parfin wax. I may test some stripes on my arms and sit outside for a while. As I burn pretty easy.

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Re: Reactions to paint

Post by Metina on Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:48 am

Oh. I had no idea and stand corrected. I thought the "Gluten" thing was a special diet fad. Live and learn I guess.

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Re: Reactions to paint

Post by Metina on Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:54 am

Here is another article and it says that henna is only approved for use on hair not skin. I don't want to be cavlier, but that seems a little rediculous that henna isn't approved for use on skin. The Egyptians have been using it for over 2,000 years without an FDA compliant.(said in jest)

http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm048951.htm

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Re: Reactions to paint

Post by aprilmoonflower on Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:53 pm

i had no idea either Metina until recently!

btw, if the parent has an allergy prone child I would suggest a patch test before the event. if possible.
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Re: Reactions to paint

Post by moonprints on Sun Oct 11, 2009 1:18 pm

Metina wrote:Oh. I had no idea and stand corrected. I thought the "Gluten" thing was a special diet fad. Live and learn I guess.

There is actually a disease called "Celiacs disease" where people have an intolerance for gluten and sometimes other substances.
http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddiseases/pubs/celiac/
"When people with celiac disease eat foods or use products containing gluten, their immune system responds by damaging or destroying villi—the tiny, fingerlike protrusions lining the small intestine. Villi normally allow nutrients from food to be absorbed through the walls of the small intestine into the bloodstream. Without healthy villi, a person becomes malnourished, no matter how much food one eats."

It's definitely not a fad diet thing. I have a friend who has it and she has to be very careful what she eats now. The positive news is since it was diagnosed, she hasn't had to be hospitalized on a regular basis for abdomen/gut pain and passing out only to be discharged with no answers. Knowing is much better than wondering just what is wrong and stumping the doctors...

I hadn't thought of a skin/contact type allergy to gluten, but that could make sense! Still, if a parent is making that much of a big deal out of it, there must be a reason (even if it's just something that's important to just her/seems irrational) and it's probably better to err on the side of caution, right?
Plus if there were gluten in the paints and they happened to be ingested because of paint around the mouth or something, my friend says even a small amount of gluten can ruin weeks or months of careful dieting and cause problems for the affected person.

If you talk to this woman again and manage to get more information from her, I'd love to hear more! It's interesting what is very important to some people but wouldn't cross the minds of many others... all in your perspective I guess!

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Re: Reactions to paint

Post by Guest on Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:10 pm

Not all face paints act as sunscreeen... I've got no data to back this up BUT personal experience.

My model Naomi gets painted ALL the time... she has flawless skin. I've painted her (and myself) when we are working outdoors doing a 2-day festival - this has happened two different times, in different years...

Where I have used a "pearl" or "metallic" paint she gets red marks - not really blisters but raised headed bumps... they are visible, but not irritating to her. This is when it has been sunny and hot... when it is cloudy or raining, we don't see anything.

We think (yes we do think) it is something to do with light refracting in the shimmer of the paint ... that's our theory. Feel free to poke holes in it.

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Re: Reactions to paint

Post by CATZ on Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:01 am

Metina...you hit the nail on the head with the lady I'm talking about. She loves to make a big deal out of everything...especially her daughter's issues. I told her the same thing, it's external but she still insisted gluten is a problem for her daughter even on the skin. I think I'll suggest she not have her daughter painted if she's worried. Thanks!
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Re: Reactions to paint

Post by CATZ on Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:08 am

Oh just saw a whole other page of responses...thanks! Yes, she's celiac and I have lots of friends that are too. It's just this particular mother is a major drama queen. I think I'll ask my celiac friends if their kids react to external gluten sources. I can't find anything that states face paint has gluten in it, so I'm not sure any of this is an issue, I'd just like to have some facts to support it. Thanks!
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Re: Reactions to paint

Post by aprilmoonflower on Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:15 am

I really don't think that looking after your kids needs is being a drama queen. ESPECIALLY with an allergic child. I mean it could be life threatening in some cases! How do you really know her kid won't react badly even if the paint is external?
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Re: Reactions to paint

Post by Just Jenny on Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:22 am

aprilmoonflower wrote:I really don't think that looking after your kids needs is being a drama queen. ESPECIALLY with an allergic child. I mean it could be life threatening in some cases! How do you really know her kid won't react badly even if the paint is external?

Drama Queen Mama is easy to spot....She is the one who would use her child as an excuse, and you as someone to blame. ie: insist that the child be painted because others are and blame you for not knowing that her child had allergies. (so of course for us, she might not show herself until after the child is painted...I can't tell you how many times I've been asked as the child is getting out of the chair, 'will this wash off?')

Solution might be to just have her read the back of the paint container and she can tell you if the ingredients are safe for her daughter or you could print off a MSDS of the product you use and have her decide if her child can be painted or not. MSDS can usually be found on the MFG sites.

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Re: Reactions to paint

Post by aprilmoonflower on Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:04 am

I hardly thing trying to find out if the paint has GLUTEN in it which her kid is allergic to is an excuse. I mean seriously? The mother doesn't sound like she is trying to blame anyone but find out what ingredients are in the paint. I really find the attitude that she is a "drama queen" because of it extremely disturbing. Should she just let her kid use skincare products with gluten? How do you know the kid won't react adversely?


Last edited by aprilmoonflower on Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Reactions to paint

Post by aprilmoonflower on Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:36 am

btw~ I want to remind everyone that the skin is the largest organ of the body and does absorb anything that is put on top of it!!!!!
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Re: Reactions to paint

Post by CATZ on Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:57 am

Normally I'd totally agree with you as I'm mama bear with my own kids and have only respect for all other mama bears. It's just this particular woman (I've known her for awhile). A medic friend of mine that's known her even longer than I, suspects she has Münchausen syndrome. She 'creates' diseases for her daughter so she can get attention. This poor little 10 year old has everything in the book according to the mother.

Good idea on the safety sheets. I'll check that out. Celiac is a serious disease and I'd like to know for sure. I'll let everyone know once I find out. I like research : ) Thanks!
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Re: Reactions to paint

Post by Guest on Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:17 pm

Okay... reality check. If your kid has serious allergies would you really let them do something that could/would expose them to danger?

Why do they even bother to ask if the "know" that they might???

Just attention getting behaviours...

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Re: Reactions to paint

Post by CATZ on Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:28 pm

Exactly! Thanks Shannon.
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Re: Reactions to paint

Post by aprilmoonflower on Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:36 pm

Hmmm, my other response seems to not have been posted..weird!

In this case then I would either refuse to paint this child or have the mom sign a waiver. You could also ask her to bring her own paints. I have learned when it comes to skin and hair when in doubt just DON'T DO IT. I have seen some nasty lawsuits happen in several salons I've worked in for reasons of stupidity on the part of the stylist,etc. You really need to just CYA first..

I have seen the lives that some kids with severe allergies lead. They miss out on SOOOOO much. So maybe it's not always an attention seeking behavior but rather more wanting their kid to be able to do something "normal".
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Re: Reactions to paint

Post by JBax on Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:48 pm

So, does everyone carry around MSDS for every maker they carry? (and is there a different sheet for each color or just one for each brand?)
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Re: Reactions to paint

Post by Guest on Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:55 pm

I carry a couple MSDS ... I've got one for Wolfe and one for Snaz.

I also carry original containers of Snaz, Kryolan, Grimas, Fardel and a Wolfe in my kit so that if asked I hand them the container to read. That usually is sufficient.

It also helps that my stuff all looks terribly "professional"... they usually are asking me where to buy it rather than what is it.

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Re: Reactions to paint

Post by eva on Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:31 am

Thanks Shannon for bringing up the reaction to the smell of paradise paints. I am so sensitive to smell....I don't know exactly what it is or if it is several things, but so many scents (especially perfumes and colognes, and a lot of cosmetics) make me really sick. Not like flu sick , but like allergy sick. People think I am crazy, but anything I have a smell allergy to, I can sometimes also taste just by smelling...and that makes it even worse, and then can get sick to my stomach.....I am just a freak I guess.

I won't try that brand....
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