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Disinfecting face paints?

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Re: Disinfecting face paints?

Post by fesspenter on Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:51 am

Dear alison mk:
Do not dilute isopropyl alcohol.
Just purchase the 70%.
Diluted alcohol becomes a food for bacteria.

My face paints are food grade.
That means that they are able to be ingested without harm.
I would not use "meths" as the final rinse agent before drying.
What if those industrial chemicals leave some sort of residue in my brushes that I am using on children's tender skin, near their mucous membranes? I am not willing to experiment upon my clients.
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Re: Disinfecting face paints?

Post by alison mk on Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:58 am

Hi Lisa,
perhaps i could have been clearer - i absolutely agree with you about no using meths for exactly the reasons you say Smile - i'm all for using the simplest solution for everything, which is why i suggested using a spritzed sponge instead of wet wipes to clean faces earlier in this thread.

I'm confused about not diluting ipa though - so long as your tap water is to drinking water standard, any residual bacterial should be killed by the alcohol. Have i misunderstood your post?
I suppose the solution if this was a concern would be to dilute with distilled water.

a

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Re: Disinfecting face paints?

Post by fesspenter on Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:18 am

Dear alison mk:
I paint with distilled water.
I never double dip my paint brush into the paint, once it has touched the skin. (I do "double-load" my paint for two or three color flower petals.)
I swish the brush through the first water container with a very small amount of soap and a surgical scrub brush.
I swish the brush through the second, clear water rinse and a surgical scrub brush.
Then, swish through a clear water rinse, shape the brush with my fingers, clearing out any excess water.
Then, I plop the brush down in 70% alcohol.
Leave the brush to air dry.
I carry in excess of 90 brushes to any event.
I use full strength 70% alcohol as my last "rinse" on my brushes.
I leave them to air dry.

Diluting the isopropyl alcohol with water will reduce it's ability to sanitize effectively.
Adding one third the amount of water to 99% alcohol will not bring it precisely to 70% alcohol. It does not matter whether you use tap or distilled water, do not dilute your alcohol.
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Re: Disinfecting face paints?

Post by alison mk on Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:39 am

i would love to know if anyone has done any research propely on this. i know you've got really strict regs in canada - do you know if any lab was done specifically on face paints?
it would be fantastic if someone looked at what could be cultured from a sponge that had applied a base, from a brush that had done a face-full of line work and a selection of different brands of paint at the end of a job.

Does anyone know if anything like this has ever been done???

a

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Re: Disinfecting face paints?

Post by TinafromNY on Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:55 am

Lisa, thanks for that info. I'd like to adopt a few of these practices even though I'm in the US. May I ask a few questions?
1. After that final alcohol dries on the brush, do you rinse that out with clear water before touching a kids face with the brush again?
2. Are you doing this alcohol wash right at a gig, or just after the gig is over?
3. Do you do this with the sponges after a gig? If you do, do you dip the sponges and let them dry also? Do you then rinse them in plain water after they dry? Thanks for info

To anyone else who "disinfects" their actual paints - if you could answer this - I'm still confuses about the disinfecting paints - do you spray them with the 70% alcohol, then let it dissapate and dry? Wouldn't some chemicals still be in the paint then? Thanks
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Re: Disinfecting face paints?

Post by fesspenter on Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:13 pm

Dear TinafromNY:
I let the alcohol dry completely. It leaves no residue on the brushes after dry. I do not use the brush again until it is dry. That is why I carry so many brushes, to let them dry completely.
I am doing this with every brush, every time I use it. It adds a few seconds to every face paint. At the end of the event, I pack up and I am ready to go to the next event with a completely clean kit.
I use one sponge per child per color. I place my sponges in a lingerie bag and wash them in my washing machine, and dry them in the dryer. They are clean and ready to go for the next time. I have just over 500 sponges. I bring twice as many as I have clients for the day. I have never run out of sponges. I have ALMOST run out of sponges one day.

I do not "disinfect" my paint.
Bacteria have a hard time growing on dry surfaces. I let my paint dry out completely. I do not have lids on my paint.

All of Canada does NOT follow these standards.
Alberta has very stringent standards.
SickKids Hospital in Toronto, Ontario agreed to have a face painting program at their hospital, providing I followed the standards of hygiene Infectious Disease Control demonstrated for me, and I follow those guidelines.

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Re: Disinfecting face paints?

Post by TinafromNY on Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:21 pm

Hi Shannon!
I'm almost afraid, lol, to contradict anything you say, but you said this on this post...."BTW the antibacterial in the make-up is to prevent mould from growing on it NOT to kill viruses etc that make contact. So do not expect that herpes or other contagions will be "killed" by contact because they won't be.."

But when I was on the Snaz link that was listed on a post here, it said this:
"The preservative system in our products is very strong and it is highly unlikely that any germ can live in the product. ". So, that sounds like it WOULD kill germs too, doesn't it?
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Re: Disinfecting face paints?

Post by TinafromNY on Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:25 pm

Thanks Lisa, that makes it clearer for me!!! I really started thinking about all this because of this thread. Also, I just got hired to do an "Organ Donor" fundraiser (I've been an organ donor since I'm 18 BTW). I know sometimes the people's immune systems are compromised and I want to paint especially safely on these people, in case some of them who sit in my chair are organ receipients, not just attendees. Thanks so much for the info everyone!
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Re: Disinfecting face paints?

Post by Guest on Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:07 pm

A lot of what is said on the Snazaroo site is marketing. And "highly unlikely"is not an absolute by any means.

There is an antibacterial in most make-up products to prevent mould and spoilage. Snazaroo is a drier product than say Kryolan or Paradise, less emmolients, therefore less moisture to encourage growth. It dries hard, so less likely to be a breeding ground for anything that gets into it.

If you work clean, and are careful about contamination, let your cakes dry completely between uses (if using creams and liquid ensuring they never come in contact with anything but a sterile tool!) you shouldn't have any issues. BUT... antibacterial agents and antibiotics do not necessarily kill all bacteria or viruses. That's common knowledge.

There would not be enough of whatever they are using in the paint to maintain my comfort levels...

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Re: Disinfecting face paints?

Post by Rebons on Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:23 pm

Like my neighbor Tina, I would like to adopt these practices. How many brushes do I need? By kid? By hour? How many sponges, by kid? By hour? So far I've only painted friends and family (for free) so it's been very relaxed. Do you line up cups or use a multi compartment container?
And thanks so much Lisa and Shannon!
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Re: Disinfecting face paints?

Post by fesspenter on Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:28 pm

I have a brush addiction, so I use my addiction to feed my love of brushes.
I carry over 90 brushes. I will see if I can repost pictures of my kit.

I have a multi-compartment artist's water container (sold by Metina in the Face Paint Forum Shop). I have cut up some Lee Valley Tools surgical scrub brushes into two of the compartments. (I originally glued them in with aquarium glue. Not good. Became all dirty and stained looking.) Now, they are wedged in and they fall out when I empty the container. I just have to be on the look out for sinks without a drain strainer.

Right now, I have a very tiny ceramic cup to put my 70% alcohol into. The alcohol dissapates fast. I am planning to see about a small closing container to replace it with. (Ahhhh... my never ending quest for the better and more efficient kit!)

I have a pop-up container to hold the brushes after they have been sanitized, until they are dry. They dry in 5-20 minutes, depending upon heat and humidity.

I plan for twice as many sponges as children I am painting for the day. I use each sponge once, and then put into the lingerie bag, which gets thrown into the wash when I get home.

Have to go!
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Re: Disinfecting face paints?

Post by Sandie on Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:57 pm

So, lots of brushes!! How many DIFFERENT brushes do you use? Do you use say 4 different kinds and just have bazillions of those 4?
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Re: Disinfecting face paints?

Post by fesspenter on Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:12 pm

Loew Cornell rounds 7000C series: sizes 2, 4, 6
Royal Majestic rounds, sizes 2-8
Royal & Langnickel rounds sizes 2-10
DaVinci 2
Diamond F/X 2/4/6
Royal Majestic flats from 1/2" - 3/4"
Royal Majestic cats tongue/filberts from sizes 4-10
De Serres 1"
Whisp-er brushes (custom cut long flats to create fur, or basketweave)
Snazeroo rounds, large and small to create double dipped petals
Kolinsky sable rounds in various sizes
Deerfoot brushes from small to 1/2" for blending, shading, bleeding
I have multiples of each of a lot of these brushes.
I go through phases of rediscovering an old brush and using it for a while. Because I am forced to use various brushes all the time waiting for a brush to dry, I get to try different brushes for different application techniques.

Happy Painting!
I also have more of filberts, cat's tongues, in various manufacturers

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Re: Disinfecting face paints?

Post by Sandie on Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:13 pm

Thanks, Lisa! Good to know what works for others! I have lots of brushes, but not nearly as many as you! LOL
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Re: Disinfecting face paints?

Post by TinafromNY on Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:32 pm

Thank you Shannon, for clarifying that!

Thanks Lisa, for all that info!!!!
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Re: Disinfecting face paints?

Post by fezinafelina on Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:06 am

Thank you for all the responses! I NEEDED this info and will def be making changes to my set up and system:)

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Re: Disinfecting face paints?

Post by Pogueskiss on Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:11 pm

I am loving this discussion!  This is a very important topic for me, as I hope to paint kids in the hospital when I am better at painting.  I know first hand the dangers for  neutropenic(low/no immunity).  Because of my son's cancer, I became somewhat of a germaphobe. 

As of right now, I'm doing basic friend's kid party's, and I know everyone.  But I have my first true gig right after the new year.  This is a great time for me to start practicing proper safe cleaning.

Sponges scare the living daylights out of me, breeding grounds for all sorts of things! Some things like MRSA needs bleach or temps of 140*f to kill.
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Re: Disinfecting face paints?

Post by fesspenter on Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:09 pm

Sponges that are used for cleaning dishes scare the bejeebers out of me. They are constantly wet in luke warm water. A perfect breeding ground for germs. When my oldest daughter was neutropenic due to the anti-convulsants she was taking, we were told by one of the neurology team about household practices. We were told to get rid of sponges for dishwashing, unless we washed them in the dishwasher every day, or bleached them thoroughly between uses. (I never used one anyway, due to the smell of them.) Every night, the J-Cloth gets tossed in the wash and a fresh one is brought out.

When it comes to face painting at SickKids's Hospital, I use sponges purchased at the Dollarama store, cut into wedges with my handy dandy electric carving knife. I use them once and throw them away.

When it comes to face painting at a public event...
I use one sponge once for each child, one sponge per color. I may double or triple or quadruple load my sponge to avoid double dipping, and then I do not use it again until it is washed clean and dried.

Let's face it folks...
we do our best to keep our kits as clean as possible. We are probably exposed to a lot more germs on the handles of doorknobs. Our skin is meant as a barrier to keep germs out. We paint on unbroken skin. We are doing our best to not be the vector for germs. The general public is not in the hospital due to low immune systems. The sponges I use are used on clean paint, with no double dipping, on generally healthy individuals. I have been face painting at SickKids since 1998. We are tracked pretty closely as to where we go and when we go and what the child has. If I have ever spread MRSA or any other transmittable disease, I would we able to be tracked and told about this. Staph germs can survive for a few weeks or even months on a moist spongy surface. I thought that the heat of the dryer would kill the germs. I am not immersing my sponge in water, I am misting the surface. I am not painting on broken skin. This is what Infectious Disease Control at SickKids Hospital told me to do, in order to paint safely at their hospital. This is how I do it.
Remove most paint.
Sanitize.
Let dry thoroughly.

Happy, Safe Painting.
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Re: Disinfecting face paints?

Post by katerra77 on Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:29 pm

Sorry for off, but I disinfect dish sponges in my microwave. Just make sure the sponge is wet, or you're going to fry your microwave. 2 minutes do the job.
I have to say that I did the same with 2 of my face painting sponges to disinfect them when I needed to.
The article about sponges:
http://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/food-poisoning/news/20070124/microwave-kills-germs-sponges


Last edited by katerra77 on Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Disinfecting face paints?

Post by Guest on Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:29 pm

I have about 40 brushes in my working kit... I could not tell you what brands as the writing has worn off or they are painted with nail polish, etc. but I do carry mostly #4 and #2 rounds, lots of small liners for fine details, large 1" flat and filbert for splits, and an assortment of filberts and angles and others.

The cleaning and drying time is short so I have never run out and actually I could probably cut back to about 25 brushes if I had to...

I carry ice cream buckets of clean sponges. For a 2-3 hour gig I barely use half a bucket. For a full day I will use a full-bucket myself. I have a couple of times used all the sponges I had - so the remaining faces were brush only!!

I always carry extras for long gigs. Extra sponges, extra water, extra wipes, back-up of black, white and red, extra alcohol.

Lisa, I have the perfect container for the alcohol... and I have extra - PM me your mailing address.

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Re: Disinfecting face paints?

Post by fesspenter on Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:25 pm

Dear Shannon:
Do you want me to mail you my husband in exchange?
I have not discussed this with him.

xoxox
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Re: Disinfecting face paints?

Post by Kammy on Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:33 pm

Lisa...isn't this the second time you've tried to mail your husband to Shannon?

Are you really, really desperate to dispose of him??

Very Happy
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Re: Disinfecting face paints?

Post by fesspenter on Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:51 pm

Dear Kammy:
I have nothing else I want to trade for fake Diamond F/X, or alcohol dispensers. He IS a very good parallel parker.

xoxox
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Re: Disinfecting face paints?

Post by Kammy on Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:03 pm

fesspenter wrote:Dear Kammy:
I have nothing else I want to trade for fake Diamond F/X, or alcohol dispensers. He IS a very good parallel parker.

xoxox
Then I guess the question is: is Shannon desperately in need of a good parallel parker? Very Happy
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Re: Disinfecting face paints?

Post by fesspenter on Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:13 pm

HEEEYYYYYYYY!
I thought Perry Noia was the Mistress of the Obvious.

xoxox
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