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Shut down...

Post by l!zzie on Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:29 am

I don't want to start something ending up as a "fight" but I want to understand this....

Government facillities are being shut down, because of disagreement about finance, especially "Obamacare"??

I read which facillities are kept open, but didn't see anything about schools?
Schools are financed by the government too, over here, how's that in US?

And... Please, i don't want to start a fight.... What's the main problem with Obamacare?
In the Netherlands we all have insurance, so a lot of things is being taken care of in case you get ill and you have to pay your doctor and hospital and can't go to work.

Is it a problem you have to start paying each month (like over here) and not have done that before? So you will definitely miss the money?
But don't have to worry, in case you or one of your loved ones gets ill?!
On television I heard a woman tell her story: she had breastcancer too, but couldn't pay the treatment?! It really shocked me....

Can somebody explain it to me, because I really try to understand.
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Re: Shut down...

Post by Kris5115 on Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:51 am

Currently anyone who goes to the hospital for an emergency will be treated, even if they can't pay. Currently people are able to choose to buy health insurance usually through their employer or an independent agent.

Under Obamacare, everyone will have to have insurance or pay a penalty. Small businesses which currently aren't required to offer insurance will have to offer insurance under Obamacare. For many people insurance will cost more under Obamacare.

There are also moral concerns from some who don't want to be required to offer insurance that covers abortions.

Obamacare is rumored to put price caps on some treatments/services. This could lead to reduced availability and quality for those treatments/services.
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Re: Shut down...

Post by l!zzie on Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:47 pm

Ah, ok!

Think I understand a bit more now, thank you!
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Re: Shut down...

Post by Miss Ronnie on Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:09 pm

It goes way beyond Kris's brief description.

Anyone will be seen and/or treated in an emergency room, even if they can't pay.... but they WILL be billed and billed and billed and billed and....

Outstanding medical bills are the #1 reason People file for bankruptcy in our country.
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Re: Shut down...

Post by MeeMee on Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:19 pm

Like, they charge excessive for medical bills because many people can't pay or won't pay. So the ones that do pay, pay a lot to make up for it.  But because they made it more expensive, to cover the cost of those that don't pay, private insurance companies have to raise their rates.  When they raise their rates, more people fall into the category of the "can't buy it or won't buy it."  Now that adds to more people who "can't pay for a very expensive bill."  So they raise medical bills again to cover those people.  And the cycle continues....

I'm not sure if Obamacare is good or bad, will work or not work.... but something needed to change to break this cycle.
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Re: Shut down...

Post by l!zzie on Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:33 am

Thanks for explaining more!

I'm very interested, because the situation's so different from here.
All adults (+18) are entitled to have basic health insurance taken care of. It's about 130 euro each month. All people up to 18 are free, because their parents pay.
It includes doctor treatments and most of the hospital/emergency. Also random medicins (by doctors prescription, so not the ones you are able to buy yourself)
Every year you also have to pay your "own risk" money first. That's 350 euro.
It's a bit complicated, because basic care won't touch your own risk (doctor appointments) other things will.

You can make your insurance as big as you want, and you can include things, or leave them out, depending on what you need.
I have for instance a "Family polis". The insurance company investigated what people with kids need most (like dentist or orthodontist) and puts all those things in the set.
My employer provides an additional insurance with reimbursements for treatments related to our profession (teacher: there's also psychological care in it... Rolling Eyes )

So, it's really different!



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Re: Shut down...

Post by Tineke on Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:03 am

I think it's different in every country. In Belgium, we have regular health insurance. This is a basic coverage that pays back part of doctors, medication, dentist, Hospitalization.... Through my employer I get an additional hospitalization insurance, that arranges all hospital bills go directly to the insurance, they pay them, and then send you a bill for the things that aren't insured. Things that aren't insured are abortion, sterilization, ....
My daughter's been in the hospital a lot this year, and we haven't paid anything for it, insurance covered it all
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Re: Shut down...

Post by artyfacesbyluz on Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:58 am

The big problem around here is we like to sue for everything, that makes the doctor's liability insurance be too high aprx $90.000 at year for basic praxis, so how much a dr. has to charge in order to pay that and make a profit? every single health service in this country is sooooo freaking expensive, if you don't have a job that provide health insurance for you it can cost you from $500 to $700 a month, that is way a lot of people doesn't have insurance, like artists and free lance workers.
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Re: Shut down...

Post by JJJJJ on Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:23 pm

I ... have a headache.

I have had this headache my entire voting life.

I am self-employed.

Since my early twenties, I have watched one administration (and candidate) after another ... promise ... to make my life and healthcare better.

I have private insurance that I pay for monthly. It is nearly as much as half my mortgage payment.

I strive to keep myself healthy (I only ate one funnel cake all summer Very Happy ).

I am (fortunate, and yes, I do count my blessings) lucky to only visit my doctor about once a year, for a checkup.

When I think of ALL the money I have to pay out for insurance, year after year, and add it up, it COULD have gone into the retirement account I am no longer funding because the cost of living has spiraled up way too high for me to also afford to live in my humble and beloved home.

And so. I labor on, and on, and on. I scrape by. I wish it didn't have to be that way but it is and I wake up each day and see the light filtering into the room and hear the sounds of birds and breezes and feel utterly utterly grateful to be alive and able to go out and love and work and be.

So many have so much less. So yes, I am grateful.

But here's the scoop: There is so much waste. There is so much mismanagement. There is so much that is out of our hands. And so we all struggle so so much more than would be necessary, if only ... if only the individuals who are elected to function (i.e. work) as representatives for the people instead of fir themselves and their own interests, would do just that.

I saw a photo today and there is a line of cars which cannot access the Grand Canyon, because "the government is shut down."

Enough said.
Question 

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Re: Shut down...

Post by Luvs to paint on Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:28 pm

JMO, but I feel no person deserves their salary "for life"... sorry, they should have to worry about retirement, taxes, health care, just like the rest of us. (p.s., i am referring to our US politicians).


Last edited by Luvs to paint on Sat Oct 05, 2013 2:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Shut down...

Post by JJJJJ on Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:35 pm

Really, everyone should get the same decent affordable care. The elected people get these incredible plans. They shouldn't. Or rather, we all should get the same. That's not socialism. It's just basic human decency. Like, no one should be hit. No one should be stole from. Etcetera. We should all just take care of each other. Yes, I know this is the way eight-year-olds see it, through their sunshiny glasses. Well, then, I am eight. I know how the world is. But that won't stop me from saying that it should be nicer. Why is my health less important than a senator and his/her family's? Why?

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Re: Shut down...

Post by l!zzie on Sat Oct 05, 2013 2:48 am

It's very complicated!!

We all have same basic care, no matter what, but you can decide to take more insurance and - of course - pay more for it!

And yes, we all have to pay for retirement too, and taxes.
That's why our houses and cars are usually a bit smaller than the ones in US!
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Re: Shut down...

Post by zeebee on Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:47 am

This is an interesting discussion. Thanks for being so civilized about it! I have lot's of questions but everyone is so biased that it makes it hard to read through it all. I am also interested in how other (particularly European) countries handle this difficult issue of healthcare.
My own employer just sent me a letter saying that starting Jan 1 they will no longer offer that crappy insurance that they offer (crappy but I am still grateful for it, because it is all we have had). So I don't think it's true that small businesses will be required to offer insurance, only if you are full time. But I could be wrong.
If anyone knows of a credible, non biased source for more information on Obamacare I would appreciate it.
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Re: Shut down...

Post by stephen lewis on Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:12 pm

OH, I so much want to post to this thread, but if I start I'll write forever and a day about the in-equalities and idiotic ways governments (who actually are our servants, we the tax payers are not here to service them) waste and squander. Feel I'm starting on a roll, I'd better stop, but not before I state that Canada has a nation medical care plan. Though the plan costs and administration are slightly different in every province (state), the basic plan is free health care for all. In Newfoundland & Labrador (where I live) my costs for health care are fully paid for by Government. We do not pay into it through fees or premiums. If I want luxury, like a private hospital room, I have to pay the extra cost. Prescription medications are my responsibility unless I can't afford them, in which case they are paid for by the Provincial Drug Plan. Certain cosmetic (vanity) surgeries are not covered either, unless there are extenuating circumstances. But, I see I'm starting on the roll again. I'll end my rant.
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Re: Shut down...

Post by JJJJJ on Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:53 pm

I agree, Stephen - I could roll and rant and roll on this topic, but I'm done here too! The Forum is my reprieve and my oasis of joy. But oh, could I go on and on ...Very Happy 

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Re: Shut down...

Post by l!zzie on Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:51 am

I'm sorry, didn't want to take yur happieness away JJJJJ!
I pressumed it was complicated and it turns out I was right.
I was just curious, because I never believe the story written in the papers is the one and only version.

Thank you all for posting, now I'll go and find a recipe for caramel apples!
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Re: Shut down...

Post by eva on Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:54 am

I find it all overwhelming and scary. My husband was a retail manager and we paid $470 a month for our insurance plan, which was an 80/20 with a $1000 deductible per person, and covered no meds until you hit the deductible. I could find no better or cheaper plan and after years of paying this and rarely using it because we couldn't afford the 80 on top of paying for the insurance, we are now uninsured. I do not think affordable health care should be so complicated. I pay out if pocket for all visits, which is way cheaper, but if something serious happened, we would be in serious trouble.
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Re: Shut down...

Post by pinkundies on Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:15 pm

Every year my premiums go up and my coverage goes down. Here in NY Ipay about $450 per month for BARE BONES insurance. My knee almost blew out... Ins wouldn't cover MRI. Need visits for mental health for anxiety/depression... Ins won't cover it. Need pills for my anxiety/depression... Ins not cover it... List goes on and one...

They say in NY THat premiums will be lowered to mid $300's for decent coverage. If that's the case I'm all about the Obamcare... Though I still don't understand why our VETERANS don't get top quality med care for life while those idiots in Congress can.
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Re: Shut down...

Post by Valerie A on Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:41 am

One of my dearest friends found out a week and a half ago that she has an invasive, agressive breast cancer. They have no insurance. (They own their own small business.) They have tried in the past to get it, but because she takes effexor and lamictal (antidepressant and bipolar meds) she has been DENIED coverage! So sometimes even if you want insurance in the US they can deny you coverage because of "pre-existing" conditions!!

Tomorrow she has surgery. They had to come up with $8,000!!!! before the surgery would be scheduled ($8,000 is a "discounted" rate for someone without insurance!) Fortunately they have good credit...for now. The hospital room is about $4,200 per day.
Then she will need chemo, maybe radiation and they will want more money. They have worked hard all their life and now, during a horribly stressful time (being diagnosed with cancer) they also have to worry about money and being wiped out financially. I'm so sad for them on so many levels. Sad
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Re: Shut down...

Post by Affordable Face Magic on Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:58 pm

Lizzie: a Unique history of Health Ins. from my life experience as a woman, RN & citizen of USA.

1- 1956, major surgery when a child-no bill, since my Mum worked @ Boston City Hospital & all staff/family were treated for free. BCH was where some of the best Drs & staff wanted to work to get experience. Student nurses at the hospital run "diploma" schools, provided free coverage for nights, weekends & summers. (Just remember that most women stopped working when they started families in those days!) The poor were never turned away. Cook County in Chicago & Bellevue in NY were similar. (Most or all Diploma schools are closed now)
2- 1970's, I started working @ a large Medical Center in the Boston area. Never worried about my patient's insurance-taken care of by our admissions office. Also, as long as the staff carried some insurance, they never were billed for any deductible. If you carried the hospital's insurance, you only received a "statement of service" no bill. This came in handy, when an uninsured driver put me in a wheelchair for 8 weeks...I also needed surgery.
3- More people started suing MDs, so they started ordering many more tests than before to minimize suits. $$$ started hemorrhaging from Insurance Companies & Medicare. Soon, we had DRG's. (Diagnostic Related Groupings) A bureaucrat decided that DRG#472 (say, Gall bladder removal) only needed 4 days in the hospital. If the hosp. could get you home in 3 days, they still got the $ for that 4th day. If they took 6 days, they "ate the cost", unless they could plug in another DRG, say a fever or cough. Soon HMO's were born & both patients & Drs were being refused care, since another pencil pusher decided someone didn't need that test/medicine for arthritis or CANCER!!! Sorry, getting stressed.
4- We moved to FL to be near our kids. My husband took a retirement package, including ins for both of us. ($168.10/month) Now the cost is, $497.61, plus Medicare for both of us. Total, around $900/month
4- Finally, while working @ a local dialysis unit , specializing in Peritoneal Dialysis, I had my own office & saw my own patients...but not before I had their insurance approved by corporate! Some co-workers on the hemodialysis floor worked 2 jobs: M-W-F 13 HR days, w/us & T-TH-F @ another unit to keep food on the table. I found out a few, w/young kids, couldn't afford the health ins. we offered!
5- My daughter (also an RN) & I became friends w/another mother/daughter RN combo from Canada. They were amazed that I had to turn patients w/o insurance away. Never happened to them. The Mum was preparing to retire @ 55 w/full ins. benefits. I'm not saying CA has the best plan. At our large Hosp. in MA, we sometimes "batted clean-up" for cardiac patients from CA who should, IMHO, never have been told to wait for "elective" open heart surgery. By the time they had the surgery, or often before, their condition deteriorated.

Valerie's story, preceding mine, is SO sad, SO wrong on SO many levels. As an ER nurse, my daughter asks, "Don't people realize we're all already paying for all those uninsured who show up at Emergency Rms?" Even if they're sent to the "Walk-in" area, instead of the ER proper, we still pay for free care.
The Healthcare bill is already law...like it or not. This Govt shut down will not change this. What I'm most upset about is that BOTH political parties no longer try to compromise to help the people they represent. The only goal, IMHO, is to make the other party look bad so your party can win the next election. Incumbents are out, as far as I'm concerned, next election!!!!!
My AU FPF friends...Is is true that candidates can only start campaigning 6 months before their election?
Would LOVE that here!!!!!
Would love to hear from other countries re: how they handle healthcare. Sorry so long. Done venting!
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Re: Shut down...

Post by Luvs to paint on Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:27 pm

i was hoping to retire soon, i'm 57, with 37 and a half years in at my local hospital. up until a year ago, if you were vested with 25+ years in service, your health benefits were promised to you at the same cost as if you were still a full time employee. that benefit has been removed, and when i retire now, i'm responsible for my full insurance payment, the hospital will no longer pick up part of the tab. I can't afford to retire now, the cost of my insurance would be outrageous, especially since I have pre-existing conditions.
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Re: Shut down...

Post by Affordable Face Magic on Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:35 pm

No So sorry, sweetie. That latest figure I quoted is part of my husband"s retirement package, which is HALF the price of a family plan for those actively working. Your situation reminds me that while working @ that medical center, we had a lot of retired police & firefighters who worked 30 Hrs/wk for another ?# years & were able to retire from our facility w/reduced, excellent medical ins. for life. That, of course, is gone now.
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Re: Shut down...

Post by l!zzie on Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:42 pm

Oh... All these stories....
I just can't imagine how it must feel not being able to pay for good medical care for yourself or your loved ones...Crying or Very sad 

Last year, when i was ill, almost everything was being paid for by the insurance company. Hospital appointments, scans (several), medical exams, chemo, surgery, my wig, medications!

Our insurance is 144 euro each month for myself, kids are free until 18 years old.
Every year you have your "own risk" of 350 euro.
So max costs per year are the 350 euro own risk and the 12 x 144 euro.

Valerie, I feel the pain of your friend, I'll keep her and you in my thoughts....
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Re: Shut down...

Post by Kris5115 on Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:32 pm

I guess one of my main concerns with Obamacare is that imposing a price cap on what can be charged in order to make healthcare "affordable" does not really make healthcare cost less.

For example, if there were a new law stating that face painters could only charge $1 per face, that doesn't somehow make TAG rainbow cakes less expensive for me to buy, nor does it make attending a convention less expensive for me to gain training, nor does it reduce the price of the booth at the fair, etc. If that type of pricing were imposed, people may think that face painting will be more affordable but most likely many face painters will find that face painting isn't profitable and will likely offer only very fast simple designs, stop training, or change professions. Face painting would probably become less available and the quality would degrade (who would paint full face designs for only $1?).

I fear that the same principle would apply in healthcare. Unless something is done to address the cost (how much is a MRI machine, or a CAT scan machine, how much is rent on the hospital, how much is medical school for a doctor, how much is insurance for a doctor to protect him/her from lawsuits, could there be a change to the way lawsuits against doctors are done - the one suing currently only has to pay if they win, etc.). If those costs stay the same, then lowering the price of what is allowed to be charged will result in less availability and reduced quality.
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Re: Shut down...

Post by Affordable Face Magic on Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:38 pm

It's a very complicated issue, Kris, but it's inconceivable to me that a person who has worked hard all their life in this country is refused treatment by their insurance company, mainly because that CO. doesn't want the expense!
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Re: Shut down...

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