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Apprentice pricing??

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Apprentice pricing??

Post by twobeesdesigns on Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:11 am

I have an apprentice, that I'm teaching, so that in the future, I'll have the option of a 2nd painter to be there with me. She's gone with me once already, and done a good job, not expecting money at that time.

With just starting out, what is the norm for percentage to pay off of what I would make, to give to the apprentice?? Is 20% too little, or what's the protocol for that?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
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twobeesdesigns

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Re: Apprentice pricing??

Post by fesspenter on Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:52 am

Dear twobeesdesign:
I do not know what the going rate of pay is in your area, or what you charge, so the dollars I pay in Canadian may be incorrect for what the going rate is in Iowa.
I have had the same group for four years. They began as my apprentices and became my team. We strive to meet for a topical jam every three months. I appreciate them. They challenge me all the time to get better. The best way I can show my appreciation is to honour them with money, as this is how we negotiate our way in this world.
An apprentice is chosen by me by the way they behave with children. I can teach anyone to paint...I cannot teach personality. I want them to possess the ability to make every child feel special in that chair.
In the beginning, they would use a kit provided by me, and they would work alongside me. If this is a paid hourly gig, they get $20/hour to start. When they have their own kit, they get $50/hour in the beginning.
If this is a PPF gig, we use the ticket system. I am simplifying this as if we have one price point for faces. We split the vendors fees on a percentage basis. If I paint 75 children, and the other painter paints 25 children we split the vendors fees accordingly, get paid their net profit and their tips are their own.
At PPF:
We have different coloured tickets for different priced faces. We count up the value of our tickets and figure out the percentage of the gross contributed, split the vendors fees, line managers fees, and get back their net profit. Of course, their tips are their own.

I value my team. I hope they feel respected by me.

Happy Painting!
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Re: Apprentice pricing??

Post by Party Picassos on Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:44 pm

I situation is similar, but my apprentice is a balloon twister. He is my 13 yr old son who started twisting with just looking at some books. I decided that he is another service that I offer. I encourage him to watch FABA tv and youtube videos to add more designs to his portfolio. I first charged $25 per hour for him and gave him $10. After 2 years of doing parties, I charge $50 per hour if he is with me face painting. I charge $60 per hour if my husband is driving him and Mark is the solo performer. I give him $15 per hour (a great amount of $$ for a 13 year old). The rest belongs to the company: for balloons, aprons, marketing and etc. Now my 10 yr old wants to know if anyone would pay him to dance at their parties bounce 
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Re: Apprentice pricing??

Post by Affordable Face Magic on Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:10 pm

I have a teenager I trained soon after I started. I bought her brushes & her own white & black paints. Otherwise,we use the same paints, sitting on opposite sides of the table. We do a 70/30 split because she can pretty much keep up w/me in speed. There are some things she sends to me, like the teal mask that's my current avatar on FPF. When we started, she felt that way about a rose, but after practice, she's got it down. Lisa is right. You can teach someone to paint, if they're motivated, but they must have a way, not just w/little kids, but kids of ALL ages!
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Affordable Face Magic

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Re: Apprentice pricing??

Post by Denise Cold on Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:41 pm

So you are making $80.00 on a $100 party that SHE painted? I think that is unfair. I would think it would be the opposite. Keep 20% as a booking fee. I paid my daughter $25 an hour to do glitter tattoos and stocked the kit and that only requires about 15 minutes of training.
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Re: Apprentice pricing??

Post by Affordable Face Magic on Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:04 pm

Denise, I'm crushed   Crying or Very sad that you'd think me unfair, especially since, like so many in our FP world, I LOVE & admire you. (After all, you ARE the brains behind so many of our business & Starblend ideas!) Maybe I wasn't clear.  I  assume the original post by twobeesdesign was for a training apprentice. When I 1st started out w/Sarah, we tried a 60/40 split, but she was much slower (of course). We eventually changed to a 70/30 split. I've never sent her alone to an event, always w/me, & she's only done 1 Bday party (I don't really need any help on those), handling the glitter tatt"s. Since I charged $75…I took $50 & she got $25. I didn't start out using glitter tattoos. Sarah likes them, but like me, face painting is her fav. Last fall, before I took my hiatus from FP'ing for my surgery, I booked a job that needed 3 people. Because she's so good now, Sarah got our hourly rate, paid directly to her. I don't want to get into being a booking agent or paying taxes if she earns over $600. Last w/e, we did an Irish Festival together for 2 days (our 1st big fair.) My niece did the glitter tattoos. BTW, Boy, did we learn a lot about marketing. (think…bad ideas the 1st day, better the next…too high a booking fee!). The end of March, we'll paint together for the weekend at the Dinosaur Show...same one Miss Ronnie works for, Thank you, Rhonda. Sarah will need her own paints for this, so I will be buying a 2nd kit.
Sadly, my young apprentice is moving far way, so I'm planning on training another 'apprentice". I have 2 more willing people. Twobeesdesign, I feel the same way about training people for FP'ing as I did in my nursing career. If you want people to use the same standards of practice that you believe in, then better to train them from the ground up.
In a few weeks, Sarah will be painting at an 3 day event w/me at her own table, using a 2nd kit I'll put together. Again, she'll be paid directly. Guess she's graduated!
I'll be following this thread w/much interest….& I DO love you, Denise. You are a special person who generously gives all of us such good advice. NowI'm grabbing a a glass of wine & going to bed…or maybe a cookie w/Fessie in that box!
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Affordable Face Magic

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Re: Apprentice pricing??

Post by fesspenter on Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:10 pm

Dear Denise:
Yes, I do supply the kit, and pay a brand new apprentice $20/hour to paint alongside me. I do not charge booking fees. If I am bringing along an apprentice, the client is not paying extra for them. I pay them out of what I get paid.
PPF is different. They get paid commensurate with the work they do.

xoxoxo
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Re: Apprentice pricing??

Post by Denise Cold on Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:11 am

I guess I was confused by the original question being phrased as a percentage and apprentice. I was assuming twobees meant an employee that is sent to parties, similar to the method that Kerry Ann Depetro uses where they use her designs, represent her company and she starts them out at roughly 1/2 split and raises it as they get better and arrive on time etc. So they are really assistants getting an hourly wage? Different animal. Is there an assumption that they'll have their own business down the line? That I why I've avoided it. I'm really tempted to start from scratch like Lisa but haven't.
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Re: Apprentice pricing??

Post by fesspenter on Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:50 am

I never meant to have apprentices.
I never meant to have a team.
It was an accident.
A happy accident.
I needed a line manager and I asked my oldest daughters' artistic friend. Bethany wanted to try her hand at face painting. Then, she introduced me to her friend, Amy, who is a quick study and has her own sense of design. They accompanied me to a few jobs, and it was clear that they were ready for more. The jobs appeared that required a team. I brought the team. I learn from them. They ask me tough questions, like "How do you do that?" and it forced me to be more analytical about how I paint. I do not want to be in charge of sending them out on a job, and getting a percentage. If I am booked for a job, and I get an inquiry regarding a second event at the same time as the first.... I ask if the client would accept my recommendation for another face painter, and, if so, my team member gets the job. I share the work. I also get recommendations from other face painters in our area, when they are double-booked.

My apprentices did not remain my apprentices for very long. They became my team members pretty quickly. I feel so lucky to be surrounded by four amazing young talented artists.

Happy Painting!
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fesspenter

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Re: Apprentice pricing??

Post by nikkili26 on Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:28 pm

I got started on $65 an hour with my own kit....

and if it is ppf, why shouldn't the other person get to keep all of their money earned, minus a 50/50 split of overhead costs?

hiring children is a different story.i would pay my kids $20 per gig.cuz it's just help.
when they reach age 16, that's when we can negotiate real wages.


I think ALL of the above options by the other forum members were extremely generous.
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Re: Apprentice pricing??

Post by twobeesdesigns on Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:49 pm

I guess maybe I should give a little more information on this topic, as I didnt in the beginning. Maybe thru including more info, I can get more responses on the topic, and advice. First off, the gal, is a close friend of mine, who wanted to learn (that's a good thing right?).

Some things that makes her slower than me are:
1) She has fibromyalgia, and this causes her to sometimes shake. So for now, she's only painting words on people's arms.
2) She has knee problems, which like the fibro flares, cause her pain, especially when sitting for long periods of time.
3) The first fp event, we shared paints. She used the smaller kits, where if used correctly, you should be able to paint around 300 faces. By the end of the 4 hour bday party, ALL the paint was gone. Again, she only painted words on people's arms this nite.
4) Because the paint was gone, before last Friday's teen dance event, we used the money that she was to get ($20), and bought her own kit. It was better that she have her own, so she can get used to knowing how little water to use. As with the bday party, she used way too much water, as result all paint was used in four hours.
5) She is upset that she's only getting $20. I would think this is normal, because she refuses to paint faces, and will only paint words, names, phrases on people's arms. She won't paint animals, designs, etc. This is one reason, amongst a few, why she's only getting $20.

Is there anything I'm missing? She rides with me, to/from event, as she has no car. Don't know if that really matters all that much. But I told her, she's going to be apprentice for at least a year, because she refuses to paint designs and refuses faces, will only do arms. To me, this limits her - so why should she get more when she refuses??
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Re: Apprentice pricing??

Post by twobeesdesigns on Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:51 pm

In addition, I paid for the yearly FABA tv subscription - because she said she wanted to watch teaching videos. I've had the subscription for now a month, and she has yet to watch ANY videos. But, I'm learning a LOT more! Very Happy Love Mark Reid!!!
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twobeesdesigns

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Re: Apprentice pricing??

Post by fesspenter on Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:35 pm

Dear twobeesdesign:
You are bending over backwards for your pupil. When I told my apprentices that I needed them to make 100 teardrops a day, until our next lesson...I received a few phone calls from them regarding viscosity of different brands of paint, so I knew they listened to me. When I saw them next, their teardrops were excellent. We meet with an agenda. We agree upon a few faces to practice, and we focus on two faces. Tigers, princess masks, dinosaurs, pirates, butterflies, zombies, scars and wounds.
My team has inspired me. When I had three months of FABATV...all of them were in my house three times a week watching and practicing with me.
I learned from my apprentices. I am glad that you have taken an apprentice under your wing. If your apprentice takes up too much of your energy, time and paint, with no interest in striving to better herself, I would have a frank discussion with her and encourage her to try new things and go forward into the future with you. You are really a team, and she represents you. If any member of my team stagnates, we are all dragged down. I am not discussing her physical limitations here.... I am talking about her attitude and lack of interest in trying new things. Our field of face painting is ALWAYS changing, new paints, new techniques, new tools, fresh ideas. My team and I will always keep nudging each other to try new methods.
I hope you find a great new attitude in your apprentice...or maybe give an opportunity to others in your area who are thirsty for knowledge.
This is your business.
Bring people on board who are ready to make you look great!
As always, please feel free to ignore anything I say!

xoxo
Happy Happy Painting!
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fesspenter

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Re: Apprentice pricing??

Post by twobeesdesigns on Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:37 pm

Lisa - I never ignore anything you say! Thanks for the positive feedback. I won't sit there and pay her any more money, than what she's getting now $20/gig, UNTIL she can show improvement, and the WANT to learn. She hasn't told me that she's watching videos, or that she's practicing on herself. So that right there, will keep me FROM paying her anymore than what's stated. It may be mean, to others on here, that I'm not paying her more. But yes, she IS representing me and MY company. One thing that she mentioned to me after a gig last friday, was that she's Christian, and she refuses to paint anything that's not of sound-mind. Well, I'm a Christian too - but in sales/retail, the customer is ALWAYS right (or that's how i've been taught for the most part). In saying that, if I were to sit there and tell my customers that i refuse to paint anything vulgar, or demonic (her words), I risk the chance of losing clients...and I'm not about to do that.

On another note, I think it's great that you and your assistants nudge each other, and learn from each other. Essentially, that's what I'd like to see from her...but we're still new into the game. I told her that I won't fully bring her on board, until she's been "training" for at least a year. Until then, she'll hafta be happy with the $20/gig, or pick up her game!!

Thanks again...and any advice is always good advice in my book! Smile
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Re: Apprentice pricing??

Post by Mellygee911 on Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:22 am

I may be a little cheeky, but I would have referred her to a calligrapher if she wanted to apprentice and only write words! lol! 

Just my two cents, it can be very frustrating hiring and working with friends.  In my princess business, I currently have 6 employees who are fairly self sufficient... They come up with their own routines, replenish their own supplies (and just send me receipts!), and keep extremely good track of their bookings once I book them!  

Inevitably though, there will always be that friend that thinks your business is cool, and it must be an absolute BREEZE, and you MUST hire her!  What I found was that my friend took advantage of that "friend" situation, and even though I laid things out for her plainly, refused to invent any new performance material, wouldn't keep up with her supplies, and had to be constantly nagged and reminded of her party dates.  When you need to be a hard-butt in those situations, it can be damaging to the friendship... But how long was I willing to baby her, and possibly damage the image of my business? Not long at all.  

I would be truthful with her.  Let her know you're a talented professional, and you're sure there will be lots of people out there who are able and willing to learn and blossom under your guidance!  In the end, this (I'm assuming) is your BUSINESS, not a hobby! She needs to respect that!
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Re: Apprentice pricing??

Post by rthling on Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:38 pm

I have no problem whatsoever telling a customer I won't paint vulgarity on them. They always laugh it off and request something else.
I also don't paint anything gang related.
We have a choice. Losing a client because I won't paint F*#% off on him or a penis on his head, at a kid's birthday party!! doesn't worry me one bit. I don't judge them for requesting it, and they don't challenge me when I say no.
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Re: Apprentice pricing??

Post by thouartbeautiful on Tue Mar 18, 2014 4:39 pm

rthling wrote:I have no problem whatsoever telling a customer I won't paint vulgarity on them. They always laugh it off and request something else.
I also don't paint anything gang related.
We have a choice. Losing a client because I won't paint F*#% off on him or a penis on his head, at a kid's birthday party!! doesn't worry me one bit. I don't judge them for requesting it, and they don't challenge me when I say no.
Agreed, my painting represents my business. A customer is not always right and inappropriate language, images can hurt future business opportunities.
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