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First Event Out of the Way, and I have some questions!

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First Event Out of the Way, and I have some questions!

Post by amberabdul on Sun Mar 28, 2010 12:48 pm

Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum and I just finished my first event yesterday so I htought I'd make a post about it as well with a few questions. Since I'm all about eco-friendly living I decided that for my first event I'd make my own face paint out of oils, beeswax, soy wax, mineral and plant pigments, etc. This blend worked great at the house but when I got there it was cloudy, windy, and freezing cold! The coconut oil in the paints mustve hardened because the paint wouldnt move and was incredibly difficult to work with. Soo embarassing... I'm normally a good artist but these paintings looked like they were done by the kids themselves! The whole point of going was to get some pictures, but I decided not to take any. :/ So I've been looking into a few different brands of natural face paints and I came upon these brands

grimas pure
elegant minerals
lyra (pencils)
artemis

Does anyone have any experience with these, which would you recommend? Any other natural face paints I'm missing here? I'm leaning towards grimas pure, because of the range of colors and products. Any tips or suggestions for a new face painter? Thank you! elephant

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Re: First Event Out of the Way, and I have some questions!

Post by Just Jenny on Sun Mar 28, 2010 1:11 pm

I can't speak to any of that, and I'm really unsure about any home made paints as getting the approved pigments for the paints would be hard. I think that you are a brave person to add any pigments that are not FDA approved...or are they? What an incredible undertaking. How do you know what is safe and what mixtures are safe? I think you have just started an awesome thread.

As for natural, mushrooms and marijuana are natural too.

I can speak to the pictures....Take pictures....good and bad, because they will help you see what really worked and what didn't.

Jenny

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Re: First Event Out of the Way, and I have some questions!

Post by amberabdul on Sun Mar 28, 2010 1:36 pm

For pigments I used iron oxides mostly. So these are very popular pigments in the cosmetics industry. I actually modified my own recipe from real professional face paint, cream eyeshadow, and foundation recipes I found. Once again the paints worked well at room temperature just not in the cold (I live in michigan.) Heres the ingredient list.

Beeswax, soy wax, macadamia nut oil, coconut oil, grapeseed oil, avocado oil, iron oxides, cornstarch, turmeric (for color), beet powder (for color), tea tree oil

Honestly, I had no question of the safety of it. I posted the ingredient list for the parents to see, I'd be more worried about using store bought paints. The problem I'm having is with the temperature sensitivity. If I had to try again I'd used less wax and coconut oil and use maybe kaolin clay and more powdered pigments/fillers and water.

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Re: First Event Out of the Way, and I have some questions!

Post by Perry Noia on Sun Mar 28, 2010 4:11 pm

As a parent I'd be a lot LESS worried about store bought paints. They are well tested and their contents legislated in the exact amounts that they are. Many people are allergic to coconuts (far more than you might think). Also, with the amount of food products in your mix and lack of antibacterial ingredients (with the exception of tee tree oil), I'd be very worried about the transmission of germs and long term storage of it. Also, turmeric and beets stain terribly on skin and clothing.

I applaud your desire to be environmentally conscious and desire to use natural products, but when doing things with people other than your family and friends, it sounds like a law suit waiting to happen. And I'm sure you'd have a hard time getting insurance using home made products.

It is just my personal opinion here of course, but I think you'd be on a better track with using commercially made AND environmentally friendly products. I'd stay away from pencils, you won't get nice results with pencils... I've heard of Grimas at least, but haven't used them myself.
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Re: First Event Out of the Way, and I have some questions!

Post by amberabdul on Sun Mar 28, 2010 5:14 pm

I've actually done quite a bit of research on the ingredients in cosmetics and face paints and it's hard to believe somone would consider the ingredients listed as more harmful than the potentially damaging toxins such as parabens and synthetic frangrance in store brand face paint. I'm not putting down store-brand face paint as dangerous, but it's interesting to me that somone would deem them as safer than the all natural ingredients I listed. Do you realize that quite a bit of people have allergies to synthetic frangrances? Common cosmetic ingredients can have very negative effects on long term health. I do realize coconut oil is a common allergen, but it is in many other popular cosmetics including paradise face paints. I also had the ingredients clearly listed on the poster board for parents. I did not purchase the vitamin e or rosemary leaf extract as preveratives yet so I intended to use the paints ONE time only. I tested all my paints for staining. No problems there. Also turmeric and beets when mixed with oils and waxes are far less staining than the black iron oxide pigments. I appreciate your concern but I am well read on the issues. I do intend to purchase grimas pure paints now, and not because of the safety concern, but because formulating paints at home is just too much trouble.

Ps I'm a parent myself and mom to a little boy who I make practically everything for at home. He's about as healthy as they come. ;]

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Re: First Event Out of the Way, and I have some questions!

Post by Perry Noia on Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:03 pm

I did not mean to offend in any way... I have many friends who are very naturally minded. I just see a big difference in doing things yourself for your family and friends and marketing them to the public in a way that could have you end up getting sued from some silly person. As we have all found (even when we do use FDA tested materials) there is always someone who blames the reaction their child has from something completely unrelated on us just because they can. Using an unregulated concoction of your own (no matter how well researched) might make the lawyer happy people that much more likely to point fingers.
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Re: First Event Out of the Way, and I have some questions!

Post by JBax on Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:38 pm

I'm curious... would your insurance cover home-made paints if an adverse reaction occurred?

I'm not so much against DIY, but it would have to be a huge undertaking. I mean, I can't take goodies to my kid's class unless it is made in a kitchen that is inspected by the health dept. I'm not sure what all goes into making cosmetics, but I'd think you wouldn't be able to use anything that you normally use for cooking, everything would have to be kept sterile, not to mention worrying more about allergies.

Shannon has used the Grimas Pure before, and I don't think she cared for it. Maybe you can PM her, or she'll speak up.
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Re: First Event Out of the Way, and I have some questions!

Post by Guest on Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:32 pm

I've done whole face paint designs using liner pencils... lip liners and eye liners - MAC, and other brands. If they are cosmetics and approved for use on the skin I don't see an issue.

However, making your own to use on the public... that is a little dicey... as the others have said, liability issues would be huge issue, allergies, irritants, contaminants, etc. I know people allergic to turmeric, nuts in any form, coconut, essential oils, etc. And the smells of some of those ingredients would annoy me - tea tree oil being one - particularly near my eyes!

Most cosmetics nowadays use "man made" replacements which don't trigger allergies (like the fake lanolin, etc.)

My old insurance company wouldn't cover airbrush make-up and my current one won't cover henna... so I can't see any of them covering home made face paints.

And personally... I wouldn't let that stuff near me. No offense, but, I don't buy things at bake sales either.

I responded on your other thread about Grimas Pure... I like the regular Grimas but wouldn't waste my money on Grimas Pure again.

I'm curious... what on earth is your colour palette like? I've seen some "organic" face paints on the internet (can't remember the name, sorry) and the colours were... well, dull and earth-toned shall we say?

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Re: First Event Out of the Way, and I have some questions!

Post by SuzySparkles on Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:16 am

I wouldn't let my child be painted by handmade paints that someone made.
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Re: First Event Out of the Way, and I have some questions!

Post by Perry Noia on Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:30 am

I think the main problem with using homemade stuff is, while you may have done a lot of research and are very well meaning.... others claim to have done their research and feel perfectly safe using acrylic craft paint... some people are NOT so well meaning and might hide some nasty stuff in there.... it's just impossible for people to know and we just all feel safer when there are tested and certified safe products being used.
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Re: First Event Out of the Way, and I have some questions!

Post by aprilmoonflower on Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:48 pm

I hear you. I hate the fact that all my paints are petroleum based and contain parabens. I guess I feel better about it as most kids are not getting painted on a regular basis. Paradise paint is as natural as I could find (if you want to call it that!) but it still contains petrochemicals. Sad

there is a woman that sells homemade face paints on etsy and they look really nice. but obviously not practical or stable enough to be using on the public.


I do wish there was a natural line that was petro free. Not to mention all my vegan friends will be missing out too. it is a bit disheartening there are no natural alternatives! I hear ya!

ETA- the etsy seller seems to be making her paint with lotion, natural thickners and mica. it says they are approved and safe for use on the face painting but the green is not approved on lips. I have an herbalist friend who also makes paints from plant materials. I don't think it's unheard of but definitely not the norm.
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Re: First Event Out of the Way, and I have some questions!

Post by modernmagik on Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:34 pm

Not sure where you got your information, but Paradise does not contain Coconut Oil, or at least the label does not have it listed as an ingredient.

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Re: First Event Out of the Way, and I have some questions!

Post by aprilmoonflower on Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:39 pm

I will have to do some research I think I was wrong I think Paradise doesn't have petrochemicals~ yay!

I don't see coconut oil on the ingredient list either. It does contain cocoa butter.
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Re: First Event Out of the Way, and I have some questions!

Post by JBax on Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:05 pm

It would probably be a good idea to write to the makers... when there is enough of a demand, suppliers try to supply.
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Re: First Event Out of the Way, and I have some questions!

Post by Tash on Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:29 pm

Ahh April you freaked me out girl!
I chose Paradise for their natural ingredients, often when I remove my face paint my skin feels better for having it on.
I would hate to think they had balanced the good ingredients with bad ones!
Petrochemicals - dammit I need to educate myself more - are typically in your regular type of womens make up brands, it's interesting that we smear that crap on and wear it all day, yet we have higher standards of what we will accept in face paint.
Also while we are on this subject - on the box of my Paradise it says -
Do not use red yellow or orange in the area of the eye.
Do not use blue or green on the lips.
Not recommended for use on under 3 yrs.

What I want to know is if anybody sticks to these rules?
and
Do any other paint brands say the same sort of thing.... or is it just Paradise.
(It says it on the metallics too)

Also Mehron is a cruelty free company, does anyone know if other companies are the same?
I've just started making all my split cakes and rainbow cakes out of Paradise because I want to be using all the same brand paint - but they don't do neons last time I looked- so I don't think I will be able to stick to one brand. I didn't like the arty cakes because you don't know what brands they are squishing together!
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Re: First Event Out of the Way, and I have some questions!

Post by modernmagik on Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:31 pm

All brands are required to have the eye and lip warnings because that is what is required for the cosmetic pigments used.

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Re: First Event Out of the Way, and I have some questions!

Post by magicnewe on Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:20 pm

Perry Noia wrote:As a parent I'd be a lot LESS worried about store bought paints. They are well tested and their contents legislated in the exact amounts that they are. Many people are allergic to coconuts (far more than you might think). Also, with the amount of food products in your mix and lack of antibacterial ingredients (with the exception of tee tree oil), I'd be very worried about the transmission of germs and long term storage of it. Also, turmeric and beets stain terribly on skin and clothing.

I applaud your desire to be environmentally conscious and desire to use natural products, but when doing things with people other than your family and friends, it sounds like a law suit waiting to happen. And I'm sure you'd have a hard time getting insurance using home made products.

It is just my personal opinion here of course, but I think you'd be on a better track with using commercially made AND environmentally friendly products. I'd stay away from pencils, you won't get nice results with pencils... I've heard of Grimas at least, but haven't used them myself.

As a newbie I am curious, do all face paints have antibacterial properties in them? If so, that is good to know! I didn't read anything about it on the Snazaroo site. Sad
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Re: First Event Out of the Way, and I have some questions!

Post by Perry Noia on Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:39 pm

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Re: First Event Out of the Way, and I have some questions!

Post by magicnewe on Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:05 am

Thank you! I found that to be a wealth of information that really helped put my mind at ease.
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Re: First Event Out of the Way, and I have some questions!

Post by Fanie on Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:07 am

There are a lot of companies that distributes good eco-beauty makeup products, but they yet have to market a good facepainting products.

This is a subject very dear to my hearth as I've been making my own beauty products for years. And my makeup bag only has real eco beauty products in it. So if anyone has a question about green beauty, I'm your lady! ^-^

But, I think that, since kids/clients don't wear facepainting everyday, it probably isn't doing much arm. Contrary to the beauty makeup that we have to wear almost every day! But this is just my opinion, of course.

I've also seen someone selling some pigments to use for facepainting, on Etsy, but I certainly wouldn't use them for facepainting gigs. It's just not practical enough and the colors are too pales. Bleh.
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Re: First Event Out of the Way, and I have some questions!

Post by Guest on Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:33 pm

Fanie wrote: Contrary to the beauty makeup that we have to wear almost every day!

We HAVE to???? No one told me!!! Am I going to get in trouble???? I've never worn foundation in my life (other than for theatre or costume purposes) and only wore mascara and eyeshadow IN HIGH SCHOOL.

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Re: First Event Out of the Way, and I have some questions!

Post by Fanie on Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:07 pm

Haha, Shannon! Very Happy Why don't you start, then? And use eco-products! Wink They're much lighter to wear than the usual stuff.

I once had a job at a beauty counter and the girls there... phew!! They always had a ton of makeup on! I like to keep it simple so I won't scare away the customers. :p

I don't wear too much. Only when I go out or for times when I feel like it. Mascara is your friend!
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Re: First Event Out of the Way, and I have some questions!

Post by Guest on Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:18 pm

I can't wear make-up on or around my eyes... AT ALL anymore. I suffer for days.

When I was clowning I had to stop wearing mascara, switched to false lashes... then had to stop wearing them... then had to stop eyeliner...

Then I quit clowing completely.

Now when I face paint myself I avoid my eyes... guess I've developed allergies/sensitivities to all cosmetics... on top of the beef, pollen, etc. allergies I've developed over the years.

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Re: First Event Out of the Way, and I have some questions!

Post by JBax on Thu Aug 19, 2010 6:48 am

Poor Shannon will have to be like Bubble Boy if this keeps up... Maybe paint a face on the bubble!
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Re: First Event Out of the Way, and I have some questions!

Post by BarbieSmith on Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:04 am

I know this is an old thread, recently resurrected. I just want to bring something up. In the cosmetic formulation industry most companies (even many small mom-and-pop shops) send their formulations to cosmetic labs for something called *challenge testing*. It is an involved process, somewhat expensive, and it is crucially important to protect from liability problems down the line. The formulation is "challenged" with microbes (fungi, bacteria, etc.) under both *normal* and unnatural conditions to see how the formula holds up to these microbes. It is not expected that they hold up forever, but a certain amount of time... yes! Especially with regards to the eye area - it is critical that they hold off becoming a cesspool of bacteria for a reasonable amount of time.

Now, something "homemade" - no matter how well-versed we are in cosmetic formulation - NEEDS to be challenge tested. Both for the safety of the public, but also because it could easily be shown that you were negligent in not doing so, down the line. As I understand it, there are not many claims for damages in the FP arena, however that is using formulations that are NOT homemade. Making your own - even with the SAME ingredients as the bigger companies - opens up a whole new HUGE can of worms, and I (personally) consider it super reckless.

I am a "free-range" mom (not a hovering "helicopter" mom) - I let my kids eat dirt. But it would terrify me if I knew someone was using handmade paints. Especially on the face, near the eyes.

Kudos to you for wanting to be "eco"... that is admirable, really!

Best of luck, and I hope this helps someone down the line who sees this thread,
Barbie
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