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Rates... URGGGG!!!!!

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Rates... URGGGG!!!!!

Post by wmeventservices on Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:16 pm

Ok, so what do you do when you see this stuff. There are a huge amount of face painters in my area and half of them charge 60 to 100 dollars an hour. And the other half charge ridiculously low rates. How do you handle this? Do you not say anything or do you send a kind e-mail letting them know that they are worth more than that. I don't know, but it is driving me crazy that these ladies are driving across the city for one hour of work and walking away with $30. Who can live off of that? Sorry for the vent, but I'm very frustrated.

www.myspace.com/elpaso_facepainting
http://elpaso.en.craigslist.org/crs/1953790440.html
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/pages/El-Paso-TX/CARRIES-FACE-PAINTING/108966409143310?ref=ts
http://elpaso.en.craigslist.org/evs/1956599692.html


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Re: Rates... URGGGG!!!!!

Post by Bec on Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:45 pm

Honestly, I haven't had any issues with losing events to anyone in the area and my prices are right in the middle. I've taken away some things from people who are charging $100/hr for birthday parties.

Are you losing gigs to the cheaper painters? I"m confused as to why you are worried about them.
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Re: Rates... URGGGG!!!!!

Post by Psalmbook on Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:57 pm

There are people right here that are charging $20-$30 an event. I'm seeing them on craigs list(no pics, so I can't attest to their work or their paint). It's part of the job. You know the quality of your work & your value, so just market yourself accordingly & leave them to their small fees. If a person is continually charging so little, they'll probably burn out(in my experience) & quit. I wouldn't go talk to them as it is illegal to try & get the competition to raise their prices. I do like what Tash said & borrowed it for my craigs list add.
"Cheap face painting is not good - Good face painting is not cheap."
THANK YOU TASH!
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Re: Rates... URGGGG!!!!!

Post by twobluestripes on Sun Sep 19, 2010 1:48 am

30 dollars? it would be easy to spend near that in gas!
I'm sure people charging so low either will burn out from not enough money for the travel, labor, and supplies, or will eventually raise their prices!

My boss has been criticized a couple of times by other SoCal painters in our area for low rates, and we don't charge NEAR that low. We're actually in the middle of the typical rate range you posted for your area, which often gets us the budget crowd here.

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Re: Rates... URGGGG!!!!!

Post by Metina on Sun Sep 19, 2010 8:28 am

It is like Shannon has always said....If you actually calculate your per face cost after expenses, you will be making nothing if you don't charge at least $80-$100 per hour. Many people think they are making "$30 and hour", but after all their expenses, they are going in the hole.

I agree that these will burn out and give up or figure out that they have to charge more. But, there will always be someone to fill their shoes.

It is best to focus on why you are worth your rate and push this. Insurance, safety, professionally trained, high quality product ect...

-Metina

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Re: Rates... URGGGG!!!!!

Post by wmeventservices on Sun Sep 19, 2010 2:27 pm

To be honest, I'm not sure why it frustrates me. I guess partly cause one of them is pretty good and I feel like she is cheating herself and for others, I guess because I hate getting the phone calls of people trying to barter my prices down. I feel like if that's what they want to pay then pay for what you get, but here, they are actually getting pretty decent work sometimes for a ridiculously low rate. I guess it makes me second guess myself a bit and maybe wonder if I should lower my prices as well?
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Re: Rates... URGGGG!!!!!

Post by Mirandas on Sun Sep 19, 2010 2:51 pm

I considered my rates in the middle... I still don't get how FP's in my area area getting away charging $100 plus per Hr. and their work is awful. That makes me want to raise my rates..but at the same time I want to keep my business flowing and believe that if I raise my prices things are gonna start slowing down.
Not so long ago I got somebody on the phone trying to negotiate a lower rate and he came up saying that another FP was going to work 3 hrs for $60.. affraid
I ended up saying..I'm sorry but my rates are set according to the quality of my work and supplies I use. He changed the subject and started asking about how many kids can i paint , what kind of paints I use..blah blah blah...never heard from him again..
So I'm debating between FP's charging too low and FP's charging too much!!!


Last edited by Mirandas on Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:21 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Rates... URGGGG!!!!!

Post by Psalmbook on Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:15 pm

I have someone actually trying to get me to do 2 events for free & how it would be a great benefit to me & great advertising(one is in the most ghetto mall in our area; duh?). I told her I rarely work for free & if I do it's for a few specific not-for-profits, I have great advertising as my schedule is always packed & gave her my rates. We'll see if I get a call from her.
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Re: Rates... URGGGG!!!!!

Post by jumpers4you on Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:19 pm

My hubby and I also own a bounce house company, and we get asked to price match all the time. So when someone calls and asks me to face paint for much less than our listed rates, I tell them what I say to our inflatables customers: Our competitors do not match our standards, so we cannot match their prices. When the clients realize what professionals put into their business vs. hobbyists, they will start to look for the professionals. In my opinion it takes us training/educating potential clients on the difference. Wink
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Re: Rates... URGGGG!!!!!

Post by Psalmbook on Sun Sep 19, 2010 6:04 pm

jumpers4you wrote: Our competitors do not match our standards, so we cannot match their prices. Wink
I love this! I've been saying something similar to this line, but not so well put!
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Re: Rates... URGGGG!!!!!

Post by TheSparklingLady on Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:00 am

I do some donated time occasionally ... what get me are the customers who tell me they are going to get paints and "do it myself!" or the ones who grab my paint brushes and paint their own kids when I say my line is closed!! I have no idea how to handle that, it has happened a few times and I am intent on the face I am painting and don;t see them!
I try to position everything so that there is no access to my stuff, but sometimes I am vulnerable!
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Re: Rates... URGGGG!!!!!

Post by Perry Noia on Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:44 am

You just have to stick to your guns. If you feel your rates are fair and you honestly believe that you are worth what you are charging, customers will believe it too. Whenever someone says to me, "someone else is doing it for X..." I don't even debate it, "oh, ok. Well, it's X for that package." Take it or leave it, I'm not changing my prices. I know what I'm worth.

I was doing a festival last weekend, pay per face with half of the proceeds going to the medieval group that I belong to... there was someone else down the street (whose painting was horrid) that was charging only $2 per full face. So, of course everyone in my group thought we weren't going to make anything off of my work since there were no signs outside the tent where I was and no big sample posters of my work (I was trying to fit in with the medieval village that I was a part of, so my signs were just printed on paper and I was inside an unmarked tent).... After a couple of kids came through getting their faces done (at my full regular rates, I mean really, I'm already taking a pay cut of half to my pocket), people came in search of me because the other kids were telling them where to get GOOD face painting done. I didn't have a line most of the time because as I said, I had no big signs out and we were way at the end of the festival, but I was still able to give a fair amount to the group and take home something for my materials.
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Re: Rates... URGGGG!!!!!

Post by BluAngL83 on Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:06 am

I put pictures of my fp on my craigslist ad http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/evs/1965430209.html
and I find that it gives my an upperhand to the other ads that dont have pictures. PLUS when you say licensed and insured, it sounds professional, AND when you got a website to show for it, it looks more legit (to me).
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Re: Rates... URGGGG!!!!!

Post by twinkletattoos on Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:17 am

jumpers4you wrote:My hubby and I also own a bounce house company, and we get asked to price match all the time. So when someone calls and asks me to face paint for much less than our listed rates, I tell them what I say to our inflatables customers: Our competitors do not match our standards, so we cannot match their prices. When the clients realize what professionals put into their business vs. hobbyists, they will start to look for the professionals. In my opinion it takes us training/educating potential clients on the difference. Wink

We do bounce houses too! I'm totally forwarding that line onto my hubby who takes most of those calls.
Thanks for sharing.
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Re: Rates... URGGGG!!!!!

Post by CreateFaces on Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:24 pm

jumpers4you wrote:So when someone calls and asks me to face paint for much less than our listed rates, I tell them what I say to our inflatables customers: Our competitors do not match our standards, so we cannot match their prices.

Metina you should start a "Notable Response" page and put this as #1!
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Re: Rates... URGGGG!!!!!

Post by rcvaughan on Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:32 pm

Well, I'm one of the low-priced facepainters, and though I know I am worth WAY more, folks in my town just are not willing to pay $100 an hour for anything....especially face painting. Much of it depends on your location. I live in Ahoskie, NC...population 2500. I am gradually upping my rates, however. I started out at $35 and now I am at $60...I can see $80 in my near future, but I wouldn't go higher unless it's for an out-of-town event. I am a full time teacher, so I'm not trying to make a living off of this...I do it because it's fun, and I can make a little money at it, too! Check out my photos on my website and tell me what YOU think I'm worth Question

http://www.happyfacesbytudi.webs.com
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Re: Rates... URGGGG!!!!!

Post by Perry Noia on Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:18 pm

I think a lot of us run into people that are "doing it for fun" or as a hobby or just because they like to... there are countless clowns out there that will clown for nothing.... it makes things very difficult for those of us that are trying to make our living doing this. If there is someone out there who loves fixing cars and starts doing all kinds of repairs for nothing, it definitely hurts the auto shops that need to stay in business and don't have unending money to support a "hobby" like the guy doing it for nothing.

There are no laws that say what everyone needs to charge, all we can do is ask NICELY, that everyone in the same area try to keep their prices appropriate to the "going rate" in the area in which we work. For just face painting and balloons, I started at $50, then $60 and right now it's $75/hr.... but when combined with a clown show, prices definitely go up as I'm not exhausting myself, jumping around like a nut for nothing!
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Re: Rates... URGGGG!!!!!

Post by Guest on Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:54 pm

I have seen some on our local ads sites and they are super duper cheap. But, their painting is yet to be desired.
So, the question is..... as someone hiring a face painter.....do you hire by price or quality of work? Question

Guest
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Re: Rates... URGGGG!!!!!

Post by rcvaughan on Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:51 pm

I think a little of both...I want the best that I can get within my budget. If I'm a single mom trying to put on a nice little party for my kid, but have very little money, let's face it...most of it is going towards the food, decorations, party favors. If I can manage to scrape up a little extra for a face painter, I am looking for someone within my budget, be it $50 or $150. It all depends.
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Re: Rates... URGGGG!!!!!

Post by Bec on Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:59 pm

Its just pure capitalism. I make enough money charging what I charge ($50/hr) in my area. I don't travel more than about 30 minutes anywhere. I have been busy every weekend since mid july and I have been told by almost every client that they checked into other facepainters before they found me and they DIDN"T go with the other guys because they charged upwards of $120/hr.

I'm a good painter, check my website. If I can paint as good (and in a couple of cases better) than the competition, and I get the job because I don't charge as much, then its a win for me. $50/hr in my pocket is better than charging $100/hr and not getting hired.
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Re: Rates... URGGGG!!!!!

Post by CreateFaces on Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:24 pm

It all depends on what you invest.

I invest about $2700 per year on the business (Insurance, training, materials, consumables, gas, postage, business license, website, signage, uniforms) and that's not even counting the administrative labor that I put into running the business.

At $50 an hour, I would have to paint 54 hours before I started to see a profit, for me and what I invest in the business, that rate wouldn't make it worth it to be in the biz.

So again, the rate you set needs to be calculated based on how much you spend and how much you want to pay yourself and your staff...which is different for everyone.
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Re: Rates... URGGGG!!!!!

Post by Judy on Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:11 am

I gave a quote to an automobile workers union and they said no way would their members pay a 'facepainter' that rate when their welders, mechanics and electricians don't even get 1/2 that rate per hour!! (I quoted them $55/hour)

I'm sure the kids will enjoy the faces they get painted from a welder! lol (no offense to any welders on the forum Smile
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Re: Rates... URGGGG!!!!!

Post by AngieAnders on Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:40 am

Bec wrote: I'm a good painter, check my website. If I can paint as good (and in a couple of cases better) than the competition, and I get the job because I don't charge as much, then its a win for me. $50/hr in my pocket is better than charging $100/hr and not getting hired.

True, but what if you could charge more and still get hired? If you are as busy as you mentioned, then you could probably raise your rates by $10-$30 per hour and still have plenty of jobs. You could work LESS if you wanted to, and make MORE, and avoid possible burn-out. When I was a newbie, I charged $60 an hour. When I raised my rates to $100 I instantly started being taken a lot more seriously as a professional, I was respected more than before, and people were even more pleased with my work than ever. It didn't make any sense to me, but people want to feel like they are really getting something high quality, and that often comes down to how much money they paid to have it. The world is mad. But it's nice for us. Cool
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Re: Rates... URGGGG!!!!!

Post by AngieAnders on Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:46 am

Judy wrote:I gave a quote to an automobile workers union and they said no way would their members pay a 'facepainter' that rate when their welders, mechanics and electricians don't even get 1/2 that rate per hour!! (I quoted them $55/hour)

I wonder why people assume that a face painter (or any other party entertainer) actually gets to KEEP all of what they charge the client. We have overhead! Rolling Eyes Supplies, insurance, training, time spent with book keeping and business-running, advertising costs, website costs, more supplies... The money charged goes to pay for many things.
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Re: Rates... URGGGG!!!!!

Post by Psalmbook on Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:37 am

That's because they think of carnival face painting done by mom's & teens w/ craft paints or Walmart Face Paints. I constantly find, even in my big city, that people have never seen face painting like this. A few say they've seen similar, but not as good, at Disney & they paid $15 for those faces. Keep showing what you can do. The public will eventually catch on!
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