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NEVER work for just tips!

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Re: NEVER work for just tips!

Post by ChangingFaceDesigns on Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:54 pm

I am painting at a hospital on the 22nd of this month for an event on the pediatric cancer ward. So I guess it just comes down to how stringent the hospital administration is.
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Re: NEVER work for just tips!

Post by wmeventservices on Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:10 pm

I've never had a great experience only working for tips. I've never come out with more than $30 no matter how long or miserably hot or cold the event was. I don't do it anymore unless I am doing it for a good cause. I love giving back to my community and I realize when I do it, it costs me, but in the cases I choose to do, I'm ok with the cost. Last month I did a Summer Thompson Foundation Event for just tips. Didn't make much, but I believe in the cause so it was ok for me.
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Re: NEVER work for just tips!

Post by JBax on Sat Jul 10, 2010 12:43 am

As for the hospital work, they'd probably love it, but you'd probably have to adopt the Alberta Canada policies as far as clean sponges for each kid, and no brush that touches the skin goes back into the paint. It would probably be a bigger deal with the immuno-suppressed kids, like cancer patients, to insure you won't bring a bug to them. Most hospitals have a volunteer services department, and infection control department, and you'll probably need to talk with both.

I see working for a charity differently than working for tips. I think we all have at least one or two we donate or time/supplies to for the cause. We work for the personal satisfaction and it helps that it's tax deductible. In working for tips, we are hoping to be compensated for our work, and it usually falls short.
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Working for tips...

Post by smitty225 on Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:44 am

Ok. So this lady calls me last night (10:30pm) and says that she want me to paint tomorrow (all day) at her event. Also, she wants me to train all "her kids" (20 of them), and that the kids will sign a non-compete form with me. And she wants me to do all this for free.

What do you say to people like this?
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Re: NEVER work for just tips!

Post by Teri on Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:51 am

i am flabbergasted. why so last minute?

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Re: NEVER work for just tips!

Post by Lyndell44 on Sat Jul 10, 2010 11:04 am

I take it you didn't accept her generous offer, since you are posting this morning! I think I would have quoted her my regular hourly rate, then added my regular 'training rate' since she expected you to do both at the same time! I'd also tell her how much time it would take to adequately train the kids to get to a point were they would be somewhat independently competent, and that, for your training rate, you would conduct a workshop in the future!
Hey - we can address the ignorance through education - but it's a little harder to accomodate rudeness (calling at literally the 11th hour!). Tell us what you actually did!

Lyn


Last edited by Lyndell44 on Sun Jul 11, 2010 12:50 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : err - spelling errors?)
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Re: NEVER work for just tips!

Post by Perry Noia on Sat Jul 10, 2010 2:35 pm

I'd tell her to go jump in the lake!! That it would take at least a week or two of several training sessions for them to be trained to do anything... that she would need to purchase professional materials for all of them (they are NOT using yours) and just what the heck was she thinking YOU would get out of this FREE gig?? Advertising? When all the people painting there are doing CRAP because they literally picked up a brush 2 minutes ago? What kind of garbage advertising would that be?
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Re: NEVER work for just tips!

Post by Kristal on Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:01 pm

"What was that? ...I'm sorry, what? I...hear you...reception...bad..."

*click*

Razz
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Re: NEVER work for just tips!

Post by Psalmbook on Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:08 pm

wmeventservices wrote:I've never had a great experience only working for tips. I've never come out with more than $30 no matter how long or miserably hot or cold the event was. I don't do it anymore unless I am doing it for a good cause. I love giving back to my community and I realize when I do it, it costs me, but in the cases I choose to do, I'm ok with the cost. Last month I did a Summer Thompson Foundation Event for just tips. Didn't make much, but I believe in the cause so it was ok for me.

Oh, you don't want to join me under some frozen, wet, drippy bleachers to paint ubers of kids for free again? I'm surprised you spoke to me after that Very Happy
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Re: NEVER work for just tips!

Post by Psalmbook on Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:12 pm

smitty225 wrote:Ok. So this lady calls me last night (10:30pm) and says that she want me to paint tomorrow (all day) at her event. Also, she wants me to train all "her kids" (20 of them), and that the kids will sign a non-compete form with me. And she wants me to do all this for free.

What do you say to people like this?

"Sorry, I'm booked."

Even if I'm "booked" by my family... a good episode of Law & Order or cleaning out the closet Very Happy
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Re: NEVER work for just tips!

Post by smitty225 on Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:16 pm

She said she had been calling me. She did call me about a day before and left a message with no details.
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Re: NEVER work for just tips!

Post by JBax on Sun Jul 11, 2010 2:47 am

"Bwah-hahahahahaha.. uuuh Hahahahahaha!

...

Hahahahahahaha!

...

Where's the candid camera? Am I being punked?"

Nah, I like the "educating" response better than my gut reaction. I've had someone suggest teaching the client when the client couldn't afford me (but she was a social worker... as a profession we don't understand "for profit" work. Having a teaching rate in you pocket for just such occasions is a good idea. Not to mention, someone out there just might take you up in it.

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Re: NEVER work for just tips!

Post by smitty225 on Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:51 pm

..what did I do? I let her have it.

It went like this:

"I don't want to be rude, but I'm booked weeks in advance. I'm not available tomorrow! Also, are you saying you want me to work all day FOR FREE in the hot sun and train all your kids to paint...and then sign a non-compete agreement with a bunch of MINORS?!?"

She mumbled something about, "yeah....they are minors....sorry, I wont bother you again" and then hung up.

Mike
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Re: NEVER work for just tips!

Post by Lauri Strandell on Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:27 am

Metina wrote:Great article Shannon. I have read it before, but you always need a refresher.

Funny I had someone want me to work for free and give all the money I made to their charity. I then suggested a trade for services(hair and day spa) with no response. Funny how everyone else thinks we should work for free for their charity, but not them.

And everyone thinks their event, their charity, their whatever, is the only one that counts. I own a restaurant and get approached 2-5 times a week for donations. Now sometimes, I base my donations on whether or not I got a "thank you" note the year before.

Thanks for reading - Lauri

Oh ya, I paint at my restaurant for free with my tip jar out, but I own the restaurant and I do it when I have time Smile

Here are some of our customer faces!

http://www.facebook.com/pages/McCall-ID/Steamers-Steak-Seafood-Restaurant/349691967716#!/album.php?aid=197720&id=349691967716

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Re: NEVER work for just tips!

Post by WickedBA on Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:50 am

I am a super newbie and only have a few parties under my belt but I havent had a problem painting for tips yet. I paint at Applebees every Wednesday here for just tips( and recently a free meal a week) and I love it. I am there 1.5 hours. I leave early if it is super slow. I usually end up doing 10-15 kids in that time. It ends up working out to about $2 ( i do very small eye and cheek stuff) a kid in tips when I leave I know it is not close to what I charge hourly for my parties but I have also gotten a ton of bookings from it in the past 2 months so i am pretty pleased
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Re: NEVER work for just tips!

Post by Metina on Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:12 am

Un,

I guess you have confirmed what we are all saying. You really don't make hardly anything working for tips. Once you get more experience under your belt, you will see how working for just tips is counterproductive.

You are sending a message in your community that face painting should be free and maybe a small tip, not paid for. I totally understand your excitement for getting a few parties, but in the end you are doing yourself a disservice.

Please don't take offense. WE ALL started this way.

-Metina

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Re: NEVER work for just tips!

Post by Perry Noia on Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:15 am

yeah, even for small designs you should be getting at least $5 per face.... you're getting LESS THAN HALF what you should be getting by working for tips.
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Re: NEVER work for just tips!

Post by Psalmbook on Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:47 pm

Lauri Strandell wrote:
Metina wrote:Great article Shannon. I have read it before, but you always need a refresher.

Funny I had someone want me to work for free and give all the money I made to their charity. I then suggested a trade for services(hair and day spa) with no response. Funny how everyone else thinks we should work for free for their charity, but not them.

And everyone thinks their event, their charity, their whatever, is the only one that counts. I own a restaurant and get approached 2-5 times a week for donations. Now sometimes, I base my donations on whether or not I got a "thank you" note the year before.

Thanks for reading - Lauri

Oh ya, I paint at my restaurant for free with my tip jar out, but I own the restaurant and I do it when I have time Smile

Here are some of our customer faces!

http://www.facebook.com/pages/McCall-ID/Steamers-Steak-Seafood-Restaurant/349691967716#!/album.php?aid=197720&id=349691967716

Lauri,
Great stuff on your FB page! Technically, if you own the restaurant, you're not doing it for free, but offering a service Very Happy

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Re: NEVER work for just tips!

Post by Lauri Strandell on Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:29 pm

Metina wrote:Un,

You are sending a message in your community that face painting should be free and maybe a small tip, not paid for. I totally understand your excitement for getting a few parties, but in the end you are doing yourself a disservice.

-Metina

Even when I do free faces at my restaurant I always let the people know that i'm practicing a new design or something to that effect. The last thing I want to do is send any message that under values this service. Trust me, I like gettitng paid.

Should I change up the "free" thing, but how to do it? When a restaurant hires a face painter, it's free to public, but the fp still gets paid. Do you get tips from a restaurant gig? ARG! Maybe I'll laugh and tell the parents that I hired myself to be the fp Laughing And when I'm at the restaurant, my number one priorty is being the restaurant owner (bussing tables, service bartender, waiting tables, hostessing, doing dishes, mopping floors, all that glamorous stuff Cool ). I don't just get to go there and face paint, so I can't really make it a normal thing with regular hours. Wow, overthinking......sorry to ramble.

Thanks for your help everyone - Lauri


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Re: NEVER work for just tips!

Post by WickedBA on Thu Dec 09, 2010 3:19 pm

All I tell the people is that Applebees and my self have come together to offer this service to the customers on kids night. I don't ever tell people I am free. The way I see it Applebees pays me with food. I don't tell people What Our arrangement is either. I am very careful how I word things. The managers are as well. At PPF events ( well my first one is next week) I was going to charge $3 and $5. So it would be better to start at $5 and $7 and go down if I need to?
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Re: NEVER work for just tips!

Post by Perry Noia on Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:40 pm

It kind of depends on your area, but I can say assuredly that I live in a very economically depressed area (we were an automotive town), and the going rates around here are $5 and $8 or $5 and $10.... never go lower than $5.... if you REALLY have to, then do any design for $5. Somehow, once you go under $5, you get lumped in their mind with dollar store junk or something and they get disrespectful.

This is of course just my humble opinion, but the ONE event where I had agreed with another painter to go to $3 and $5, it was horrid... I've never heard so many people complaining about how expensive it was and haggling with me. I know it seems backwards, but at $5 and $8 I hardly ever have anyone say anything of the kind.
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Re: NEVER work for just tips!

Post by Psalmbook on Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:37 am

LOL! It's just so funny how it works that ways!
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Re: NEVER work for just tips!

Post by creative lady on Tue May 17, 2011 6:52 am

I have a Old Home's Day coming up an the town wants to sponsor two hours of face painting. So for those two hours only the town is paying right? So do I charge my going rate and put out a sign that says from 10 to 12 the face painting is being sponsored by the town. Do I still accept tips?
I just hope those are not the only customers we get.
Last year I did this town and it drizzled most of the day. I figured we make nothing, for 5 hours we made I think it was $235. not great, but not zip either.
It was fun and we were able to watch a magic show, a puppet show and few other things just feet away, and where it was dry.

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Re: NEVER work for just tips!

Post by Kristal on Tue May 17, 2011 7:06 am

If the town wants to sponsor 2.0 hours, then, yes, they're only paying for those 2.0 hours Smile Yes, charge your corporate/event rate and I think the sign is a nice touch - lets them know that it's not free painting, and someone is paying for it.

When I get paid my full hourly rate, I never solicit tips, but if someone loves their face painting and wants to hand me a 5, I'll accept it with thanks. If I'm giving someone a discount, depending on who, I will write it into my contract that we get to place tip jars out. Again, no asking, but they can be there.
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Re: NEVER work for just tips!

Post by razmatattz on Tue May 17, 2011 10:10 pm

I was just working to book an event that was three days long. They had a free kids day on Friday with an arts and crafts show, parade and such on Sat. and Sun. The space was $20 for the weekend and they wanted to know if I would paint the kids faces for free on kids day. They said they'd waive the space rental for the weekend if I did. I asked them if I could give away one free cheek art or bracelet and charge for the rest if they wanted something else. They said they wanted it to be totally free (they would have been fine if I just did some simple cheek arts) but with the kids day being the big draw for my genre of business and craft shows can be iffy for face painting, at least for what I am used to around me, I turned them down. I guess I could have looked at it like an advertisement for the sat and sun thing, but I am currently booking another event with way more people. The event was several hours from home and I would have had to put out gas and sleep in a tent with no shower facilities vs. a larger event where there is camping (keeping my costs down) and I know I can do more as their is a more festive atmosphere. The first place had no camping (except in the park where they sat up and 1 hotel in the area, which I didn't want to put out $65 a night just in case I didn't make too much.

Another area I have problems with is fundraisers. People see what I do and they ask if I do fundraisers. All I was asking was to keep $1 for each item I paint, even my full face charges to help with materials, basically donating my time and talent. I have everything from booth set up to face paints etc. They are impressed with my work. But... once they find out I am keeping the $1, they never contact me again. The only people that I have had that worked with me on this is the Vietnam Veterans my husband belongs too. They were the ones that helped me to get my business going as they would let me use their space at events they had a booth at and I raised funds for them. They even let me keep half of what I brought in. Then, because I was donating so much (it was at a fair and I brought in $400-500 for them after I took my half) they bought me my first professional kit from Snazaroo (the big one with 56 colors). I did this for several years and then started branching out on my own.

Anyway, the point is that I guess it bums me out that they don't put any materials, labor, nothing into it, but expect to get everything while I do the work and spend the money to make it work. I know they have to spend money to do fundraisers by buying food, candy bars, etc. for other fundraisers, so why do they expect me to do it for free? I am torn about doing fundraisers for this reason and because pretty soon the only ones that want to hire you are the fundraiser people and I would be out of business. It seems like I get more people wanting to do fundraisers than I do paid events. Like no paid events - no one in my area wants to pay more than $10-20 for parties. I have done 1 in my several years doing this. That's why I do events.

Done venting. Smile

Blessings, Dawn
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