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To raise my rates or not to raise my rates?

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To raise my rates or not to raise my rates?

Post by Painted Ink. Izzy on Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:45 pm

I know there are tons of posts about this but I am still torn after reading everyone's posts...

I currently charge.
1hour 6-8 faces $50.00
2 hour 12-16 faces $75.00
3 hour 18-24 faces $100.00

Averages about $6.00 face

For the birthday parties I have heard wow that is cheap AND you need to raise your rates...
I just don't know what to do. I live in Mesa with some other painters around and their rates are a little higher but it doesn't look like many of them have been working lately. Or they do more than just face painting. I am allergic to latex so I can't do balloon twisting. Waiting on my glitter tattoo kit to come in and will start offering that as an add on to a face painting. Was thinking $25 more for those per hour.

for corporate gigs.
$100.00 /hr flat rate max 8 hours with 3x20 min breaks included.

What do you guys think?

Should I raise my birthday party rates or keep them there and just try to do more festivals either paid or PPF?

I appreciate the help.
You can check out my site below in my signature to see if the quality of work lends for rates higher or keep practicing.

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Re: To raise my rates or not to raise my rates?

Post by Faces by Ainslie on Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:56 pm

Raise. that is really cheap
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Re: To raise my rates or not to raise my rates?

Post by anniel on Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:16 pm

If you are swamped and spending all your time stressed & not enjoying the journey, ending up in unsafe, unthankful locations, raise them. If you are still getting your business up & running & building a client base, maybe boost them a little...(like at least $75 per hour...)
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Re: To raise my rates or not to raise my rates?

Post by Denise Cold on Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:48 pm

At least don't give that large of a discount for continuing hours. You're still painting as many children. You end up getting $33 per hour for large (exhausting) events!

I'm thinking of going to a flat rate for birthdays and someone had a good suggestion to rate it higher or lower on how complicated the design (For example, a base rate would be 8-10 children quick cheek/eye designs for an hour would be $50 but if they wanted full faces for the same 8-10 children it would be $80-$100)

I'm still working on my system too but yours seems to punish yourself for doing more work.

D.
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Re: To raise my rates or not to raise my rates?

Post by HappyVickery on Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:51 pm

I think that seems really low. . .Even if you don't want to raise your rates a ton, at least keep them close to the $50 per hour you're starting out with. Right now, for the two hour your giving them a 50% discount on the second hour. I wouldn't discount at all until at least the 3rd hour. Even then you are taking 1/3 off the top, bringing your hourly rate to only $33 and some change. Look at Shannon's calculator thing. . with that your working for just about minimum wage after expenses. Don't drop each hour by so much, or you are going to work 2 times as long for the same amount of money.

Now, do consider the number of faces you can paint in an hour. . .6-8 is not a lot. . .most birthday parties I do have between 25-35 kids and it only last two hours. Not just the face painting, the whole party. That would easy be three hours of painting if you are doing 6-8 faces per hour still would be cutting it close to get through all the kids. Speed will come with time, but you don't want to feel too rushed at a party. Work on getting up to 10-12 per hour, and that will give you more pull for more money Smile

Once you are there I think you would have no trouble charging $75. Your work I've seen on the forum is fabulous Smile

I think $6 per face is not a bad place to be, but I wouldn't want to discount quite so much for just 2 hours. Smile This is just my opinion, so please don't take anything the wrong way. BTW I really like the set up of your website Smile I use Wix too, I LOVE it!!!
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Re: To raise my rates or not to raise my rates?

Post by Painted Ink. Izzy on Sun Aug 28, 2011 10:15 pm

I keep the number of faces low so each person gets plenty of time for a good detailed face. I can do more per hour. I just wanted it to be affordable for the families. The area I am in is heavily mormon. My boyfriends family is and they all scoffed at even these prices. However they are lower income.

I was thinking $50 for 1 hour and $40 per hour after that... only a $10.00 discount.
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Re: To raise my rates or not to raise my rates?

Post by Gretchen on Sun Aug 28, 2011 10:53 pm

You do GREAT work!! And you definitely deserve to give yourself a raise! I agree a 50% discount on the additional hours is a bit much. By the time you get to 3 hours, you're basically giving them an entire hour of your time for free. I've never been able to justify in my head pricing per kid based on design detail...seems simpler to me to go by the hour. If a client wants a better deal, they can have me do simpler cheek art and do up to 40 kids per hour. If they want fancier and more detailed designs, I can do 10-15 per hour or whatever that takes. In the end, it's your time you're getting paid for...and hour is an hour no matter what the design. Unless you do the pay per face thing. But then I'd still base it on how much you want per hour divided by how many of that type of design you can do in an hour. Sheesh...I'm confusing myself now...but that's my 2 cents! Love your site too!
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Re: To raise my rates or not to raise my rates?

Post by Griffinblue on Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:33 am

You're a great painter and worth more, in any market.

I don't like the idea of charging less for additional hours. By the third hour, I'm getting really tired, and it makes it a little easier to swallow knowing I'm getting my worth. BTW- I do an flat 60 per hr, with a 25-35 booking/ travel fee depending on location(which is due in advance). I have lost a few gigs I'm sure, but I'm in a position to email them a week later and offer a discount, if it fits my schedule. If they are very local, I will sometimes drop or reduce the booking fee. I love working in my small town!

And 25 per hr for tats is low. Yes, they don't take much talent, but supplies get costly. I charge the same as painting, but make less on them.

Good luck! Keep it simple and believe your worth!
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Re: To raise my rates or not to raise my rates?

Post by AngieAnders on Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:36 am

I agree you definitely should raise your rates, and not discount quite so much for multiple hours. I think it's okay to charge a bit less since your speed may not be up to par just yet, but your painting quality definitely is, so don't under price yourself. Smile 2 hours is absolutely worth at least $100. Once you are able to paint 12 faces per hour, I would suggest charging $100 for the first hour, maybe $175 for two hours, and so on.
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Re: To raise my rates or not to raise my rates?

Post by Painted Ink. Izzy on Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:25 pm

Are you guys talking about the birthday party rates or the corporate? This is just for face painting at the moment and the Glitter tattoos would just be an add on...

My boyfriend strongly suggests I do not raise my prices. Says no one will pay that much for Just face painting. I am looking at others in the area and I am low for anything over an hour. HE says I am trying to build a client base and no one will hire me for those prices... even the $50 starting and $40 each hour after...


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Re: To raise my rates or not to raise my rates?

Post by Denise Cold on Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:01 pm

Is your boyfriend a marketing or face painting expert? (Tiger face grrrr at boyfriend) My husband was probably a little skeptical about how well I would do in the middle of Utah County (talk about Mormon frugality) but when we had our first festival and had a line out the tent door I think he woke up to the possibilities...

Another good thing that came from that fair is the first day we were trying to make EVERYTHING cheap thinking we were attracting business. It was the wrong thing to do. (I'll just link the thread at the bottom so you can read it.)

I think you are in the same boat as Taradoodles and me and others who think they have to discount everything because we're NEW but the reality is that I have literally had about 10 people tell me my quality was really high compared to other face painters they'd hired for other events. I spent months practicing before my first event and have had good success after people see that I'm legit.

Yeah, I still have the "50 Dollars!" people that want to throw a kids birthday party on the cheap but it's not cheap for me to go to their house (especially with gas the way it is now) and the time to get there and set up BEFORE the event and clean up AFTER the event and I usually spend several hours prepping by either coming up with unique designs for their theme or putting together a choice board.

The reality is that a lot of people can't afford to hire you. And the ones that can aren't going to be enticed by the huge discount you are offering and might be a little worried that you are discounting for a reason (like you are new) Smile

Since I've heard so much "you're much better" stuff from patrons I've stopped worrying about being new and am trying to come up with a new strategy for pricing. I want to make my services enticing but I don't want to face burnout by painting my heart out for not much money.

Here's the link to the thread where I realized that a little upselling can make a HUGE difference on your bottom line and you and your patrons are happier.

http://www.facepaintforum.com/t6139-wowyou-don-t-know-until-you-ve-done-onemy-first-fair?highlight=fair

D.
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Re: To raise my rates or not to raise my rates?

Post by AngieAnders on Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:24 pm

In this industry, you want to attract customers who value quality and are willing to pay for it. They ARE out there. And they won't look at you twice if you are only charging $40 an hour, because they will assume that you are not a professional and do not know what you are doing. tongue

When I raised my prices, I started actually getting clients who were serious about hiring me. Not price shoppers, not people who balk when I list what I charge. Corporations and families who want quality face painting for their events.

It is a BIG STEP but if you are willing to do it, you will see a change in people who hire you. You will be taken seriously, your clients will respect you more, and your perceived value will skyrocket. You do NOT want to be "the cheapest face painter in the area". That will not yield any profit or benefit for you. It will only damage your reputation as an artist. Charge twice as much as you are now, and you may work half as much but you'll earn the same. Or... you may hire out twice as much, at twice the price, and quadruple your income. Give it a shot.

As far as corporate vs private - I charge the same for both.
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Re: To raise my rates or not to raise my rates?

Post by IamGinaW on Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:29 pm

I agree that the additional hours should be raised!
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Re: To raise my rates or not to raise my rates?

Post by Painted Ink. Izzy on Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:35 pm

Yes Mesa, AZ is a very Mormon Populated area. That is why he is so skeptical for any party going over $100.00 I think $50 1st hour and $40 each hour after is a nice compromise and a two hour party (which most I have done are) would Still be under $100....

then $125 per hour for corporate gigs?

I know my quality is better the more time I can take. Never over 6 mins a kid though. I did two little girls the other night for practice. Stopped by to help my mom at a pampered chef show and did their in 3 mins and 5 mins But even my quick designs aren't bad.





I am just worried that prices will scare off any potential clients and hurt the growth...
Also how do you find your right price with out looking nuts and changing it all the time?!
I am younger and doing this on my own with not much help. I don't want to get taken advantage of. I am probably lending my self to it with low prices but... getting haggled and bullied to lower them when they are higher?!

I just feel conflicted I guess!
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Re: To raise my rates or not to raise my rates?

Post by Painted Ink. Izzy on Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:58 pm

How does
$80 for 1 and a half hours 8-12 faces
$150 for 2 and 1/2 hours 16-24 faces
and
$220 for 3 and 1/2 hours 25- 30 faces
equals $8.00 per full face and a little over $6 for 1/2 faces... Which is what I would charge at a festival.
add the 1/2 hour for alittle less rush time but still get charged for it. vs staying late and maybe only getting paid for the hour. then they are getting more for their buck and an hour won't be a total bust... still resonable for a birthday party? maybe? I don''t have kids so I don't have a clue! lol
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Re: To raise my rates or not to raise my rates?

Post by Denise Cold on Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:12 pm

I think you want more corporate gigs but the answer isn't for you to rob Peter to pay Paul. You should charge your rate (for the sake of argument $50) to everyone but have a minimum booking with corporate, mine is two hours. Business people aren't unaware they'll notice the price difference.

I'm glad I invested in a tent set-up because now I can use it for corporate events that are outside and I "include" it when they book 3 hours or longer which outside events usually are any way. I also loved that fair because it made me better than I would have been and I paid off my tent investment!

I'm not sure who said it but when I was first on the board I read that it is better to do add-ons than to discount your rate. Now that I've been doing this I have to agree. If you feel like you have to give them something, then add glitter tattoos if they book two hours (then it only costs you about $10 in materials but you aren't discounting your self.)

And I agree with Angie, you have to believe in yourself and your talents. You are a professional face painter and artist. Not everyone can hire that kind of talent just like not everyone can have a professional photographer at their wedding.

I think you are being too empathetic "I can't afford me so how can I expect others to" but that's not the point. What if you sold TV's for a living? Would you sell your big screen TVs for $200 less than the market so that EVERYONE can have a big screen? Not everyone can hire a face painter.

You know while I'm saying this I'm talking to myself. Sorry to be such a mommy...I just want you to succeed.

D.

(I just saw your price differences...it's looking better!)
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Re: To raise my rates or not to raise my rates?

Post by Painted Ink. Izzy on Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:24 pm

This is what it says on my rates page and I kept my corporate rate $100. *Mentioned professional and my experience painting.


Face Painting
Birthday Parties: Time needed will depend on how many faces will be painted. (We recommend including all ages in who may want to be painted. )

Designs are usually 1/2 face or full masks, with glitter and gems if the designs call for it.

A $40.00 NON-refundable deposit is required to hold your date and time. Goes towards your total owed.

1 & 1/2 hour : $80.00 = 8 to 12 faces maximum.
2 & 1/2 hours: $150.00 = 16 to 24 faces maximum.
3 & 1/2 hours: $220.00 = 25 to 30 faces maximum.
*Please contact for larger party pricing*
A travel fee *may* apply depending on event location.

*You can be assured that you will get high quality face painting for your event or child's birthday.

We are professional & use only FDA approved face paint the artist has over 15 years of painting experience & artistic ability.

Please contact us if you
have further questions.
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Re: To raise my rates or not to raise my rates?

Post by IamGinaW on Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:22 pm

I don't really see why you are doing it on the 1/2 hour or why you are breaking it down to how much per face. I was charging $100 first hour and $50 each hour after, BUT I changed to $75/per hour with a 2 hour minimum. One hour is just never enough and doesn't seem worth the travel, set up, take down, and clean up. Two hours will usually cover a party unless it's absolutely HUGE. I do much more detailed painting if there are only a few kids and/or let them come back for more after everyone gets painted once.

Festival pricing and private party pricing are entirely different! In one case you are already set up (just once for everyone) and travel only once and they come to you. In the other case you go to them for a PRIVATE booking. Just like, if you hire someone to come to your house to do hair, make-up, or massage, it's different than if you go in somewhere and pay for it.

I think $50/hour with a 2 hour minimum is more than reasonable. Plus, you are good enough to charge a decent price and if you don't charge enough they might not think you're any good.
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Re: To raise my rates or not to raise my rates?

Post by Painted Ink. Izzy on Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:45 pm

The break down per face is just stating it for you all.

Perhaps wording it as packages?
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Re: To raise my rates or not to raise my rates?

Post by Painted Ink. Izzy on Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:35 pm

Okay settled on $40 per hour min two hours for now. Then if I am too busy I will up them again... I will do the glitter tattoos as an add on to facepainting for $30 or as a stand alone for $40.00 per hour min 2 hours. I am not going to advertise glitter tattoos too much for parties until I am doing more festivals...

Now I just need to figure out a good way to find the festivals before it is too late to be a part of them!
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Re: To raise my rates or not to raise my rates?

Post by Griffinblue on Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:46 am

It's so funny because my husband never believed anyone would pay 60.00 an hour for a face painter for a kids party. He laughed at me! Well they do, all the time. For every no I get, I have 3 say yes. Guess what? I booked 3 gigs this afternoon alone. Nobody bats an eyelash at it. I truly believe that we all equate expensive with quality. And that's what they get. And no matter how bad the economy is, people continue to lavish their children with extravagant birthday parties!

Also- I secretly give all my client an extra 15 minutes. Either for starting a little early, or going a tiny bit late. I relax this way, and they think their getting a bonus;)
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Re: To raise my rates or not to raise my rates?

Post by Lady Jayde on Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:08 am

Izzy, you need to be careful about constantly changing your rates up and down a scale...word WILL get around. I personally think that $50/hr is a seriously low rate for your skill. However, if that is what your demographic will support, then so be it. At that low rate, I wouldn't even begin offering a discount until they reach the 4 hour point. Your customers are already telling you that you are cheap and to raise your rates... that's a clear sign.

The $40/hr-2 hour minimum is not very far off from where you started. If you let people get comfortable with your low rate, you will most likely shoot yourself in the foot. If there are other professional painters in your area, they might be pretty upset with you right about now...I know I'd be seriously torqued.

You are going to the client and the aren't having to stand in line to have their kids painted at a ppf rate. The break down price for each face, while it is good to consider, doesn't incorporate the cost of the housecall itself. $50/hr with a 2 hour minimum is a MUCH better rate (albeit still pretty darned low) than $40. Don't be afraid to ask for what you're worth...you'll never get it otherwise. JMTC
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Re: To raise my rates or not to raise my rates?

Post by Lady Jayde on Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:30 am

Painted Ink. Izzy wrote:
I am just worried that prices will scare off any potential clients and hurt the growth...
Also how do you find your right price with out looking nuts and changing it all the time?!
I am younger and doing this on my own with not much help. I don't want to get taken advantage of. I am probably lending my self to it with low prices but... getting haggled and bullied to lower them when they are higher?!

I just feel conflicted I guess!

Izzy, there is a power in the ability to be comfortable with walking away. I've learned the hard way that it HAS TO be a win-win in or for this to be worthwhile. Angie couldn't have said it better. When I first started, I was getting sporadic birthday parties and one hour gigs that weren't worth my while at $75/hr. When I raised my rates to $100/hr, those parties dwindled, but for some reason, I made more and worked less. This year I've been doing mostly 3-5 hour corporate gigs at my full rate or with a volume discount after 3 or 4 hours if little travel is involved. I'm working at establishing the customer's perception of my value and I've even been chosen over other painters who charge half of what I do!

I'm sorry, but your boyfriend isn't a good person to go to for marketing. That you coudn't afford to hire you at your current rate is irrelevant, you're providing a service within the entertainment industry and that service comes with an expected cost. It's a luxury...not something that was ever intended to be commonplace.

You find the right price by 1) comparing the prices of others in your area and getting to know the other painters (this will be VERY difficult to do if you're seriously undercutting them), 2) setting your rates to either be comparable or within $10-$15 of their rates (that's only until you feel your speed/skill is comparable with theirs), and 3) sticking with those rates, thick or thin, for at LEAST a season so that you can gauge your success. If you keep flopping back and forth on your rates, you'll become known as the painter who can be bullied down on her prices. Lose the fear of not getting the gig and it will show in your demeanor and be reflected in a confidence that will draw in the clients you WANT. You want to be appreciated for your skill and compensated for your time and effort. It won't be easy, but the perception of value HAS to start with YOU... if you don't perceive your own value, then you are setting yourself up for burnout and poor treatment.

I think that you know all of this, otherwise you wouldn't have had the insight to post here about your rates. It's scary and the neigh sayers will balk, but the valueable customers will make it worth your while. I would rather do 2-2hour event and bank $400 than a series of $50/hr parties that take me away from my family for much of the weekend...what about you?
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Re: To raise my rates or not to raise my rates?

Post by a face painting mom on Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:11 pm

Why not just find an hourly rate that you are comfortable with, and let the client do the multipilcation?

I totally agree with everyone who says that if you price yourself cheap, you are going to get people who think that you are not a serious artist and people who would like to pay you even less than you are asking. If you charge more, you may have a few walk away, but they might have anyway, even at half the price.

I would charge what you are worth per hour, period, and shoot for being the kind of painter you want to be, instead of the kind of painter that the most frugal person would accept.

Work a couple of festivals to get your speed up and network yourself! Mesa may have a large Mormon population, but it also has the entire Metro area attached to it, includeing Scottsdale...you are thinking to much within a small box. Unless you plan to only work for the Mormon community, you will find that there are plenty of people out there who are willing to pay a good rate for a good painter and expect to pay for quality, and that customer will keep you in business.

I charge the same for parties as I do for corporations. The price is based on me, not them. The only thing I would base on "them" is what the market will bear...but you have to decided which market you are going to serve. Are you shooting for Long John Silvers or Red Lobster? I like both, and if truth be told, some of what they each serve comes from the same fish markets...but you have a higher expectation from Red Lobster, and expect to pay more when you go there, or...you just don't go.

Think of this too...if you get 10 calls from prosective clients, and 3 of them say that you over charge, but the other 7 book at a much higher rate, you make more money and use less of your supplies than if you worked all 10 for half the price and used 1/3rd more of your supplies.

Value yourself, and everyone else will too!
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Re: To raise my rates or not to raise my rates?

Post by Manabanana on Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:29 pm

I say. "raise your rates...everybodies doing it. " Twisted Evil


hahaha


for real, do what whatever you are comfortable with and stick to it, until you feel more confortable then raise it again. flower
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Re: To raise my rates or not to raise my rates?

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