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Liquified paint/split cakes! HELP!

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Liquified paint/split cakes! HELP!

Post by Manja on Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:35 pm

When I opened my kit to set up at the Farmer's Market early Saturday morning, I found that nearly all of my split cakes had LIQUIFIED. Some had turned to goo - like we've all experienced in extreme heat or humidity with some paints... but a bunch of them had turned to liquid. The paint was running out of the boxes all over the place and mixing into pools of swirly messes.

The day before the gig, I had loaded my fatmax into the minivan and drove for 5 hours in moderate temperatures. It was in the low to mid 70's. We stopped for about 1/2 hour at a scenic view point where I locked the car with the windows rolled up. It was not scorching hot when we got back or anything. No hotter than painting outdoors on a hot summer's day.

I loaded into the car last thing before we left and unloaded it first thing when I arrived at my destination. What I'm saying is, it wasn't like they were exposed to extreme heat or anything and they were brought indoors and sat at room temp all night. The morning was a bit cool, maybe 60 degrees.

So....... WHAT would cause my split cakes to turn to liquid and the rest of my paints are fine - not even soft?

Brands affected: Arty Cakes (the newest ones were the worst) and my beloved TAG.

I was mortified and am at a loss as to what caused this. The only thing that was "different" in my kit than ever before is that I had my sample FAB silver in there, uncovered - AND the lids were all off of the split cakes because I was in such a hurry from my last gig a few days prior. I've left them all open many times before - out on my table with no ill affects, so I didn't think there would be any harm in it.

The ones that were just "gooey" are hardening back up. The ones that were turned to pure liquid are very, very soft and tacky.

ADVICE?
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Re: Liquified paint/split cakes! HELP!

Post by debranewmanart on Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:43 pm

Could the split cakes have been really wet when you finished last? Don't know why it happened, but I'd leave all open to dry out either near the a/c or heat register....whichever you have on now.

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Re: Liquified paint/split cakes! HELP!

Post by Manja on Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:56 pm

Some of them I had not used for some time. So it's not because they were too wet.

They are sitting open under a ceiling fan. Some of them are cracking now as they dry out.

It's all very upsetting!
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Re: Liquified paint/split cakes! HELP!

Post by SuzySparkles on Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:06 pm

hmmm I have no clue, I have left my paints in a hottt car for a whole day... Lids off of splits and they were perfectly fine. So I am not sure what happened in your case.
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Re: Liquified paint/split cakes! HELP!

Post by Manja on Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:15 pm

I'm suspicious of the FAB silver paint possibly outgassing whatever chemical they use in it to keep it soft and creamy. It really is the ONLY factor in the equation that is different from anything I've ever done before. It was also open in the top compartment where I keep all of my split cakes. When I opened the lid to my fatmax the perfume smell was overpowering.

I did an experiment and shut it into my regular pallet case overnight, and it had no affect on my cakes. However, those are all larger cakes of DFX, as opposed to the smaller quantities and different brands of paints in my split cakes.

Still... can't help but suspect it had something to do with it.
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Re: Liquified paint/split cakes! HELP!

Post by artyfacesbyluz on Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:42 pm

Some arty cakes are made of kryolan, I have the wonder palette from silly farm, and the kryolan colors on the split cake always melt.
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Re: Liquified paint/split cakes! HELP!

Post by Manja on Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:57 pm

Do they turn to liquid or just get soft and gooey? I've had the gooey problem before, but these were liquid that poured out into puddles - like thin gravy.

I'm mystified by it and just want to avoid this ever happening again! It's a huge loss when 20+ of your split cakes turn to liquid and swirl together into unrecognizable colors a
nd unusable end products.
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Re: Liquified paint/split cakes! HELP!

Post by Manja on Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:02 pm

SuzySparkles wrote:hmmm I have no clue, I have left my paints in a hottt car for a whole day... Lids off of splits and they were perfectly fine. So I am not sure what happened in your case.

Yes, me too! I'm stumped.
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Re: Liquified paint/split cakes! HELP!

Post by Kristal on Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:08 pm

When I moved makeup into a smaller palette to take to a convention with me, the glycerin from a lot of my Kryolan cakes started to bead at the top - that's likely the liquid you're talking about, I'm thinking...

Still usable, but then again these were single colours. If you wipe the tops off can you use them still? Maybe after they firm up a bit?
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Re: Liquified paint/split cakes! HELP!

Post by Manja on Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:16 pm

Kristal wrote:When I moved makeup into a smaller palette to take to a convention with me, the glycerin from a lot of my Kryolan cakes started to bead at the top - that's likely the liquid you're talking about, I'm thinking...

Still usable, but then again these were single colours. If you wipe the tops off can you use them still? Maybe after they firm up a bit?

I wish. Imagine the entire contents of paint in the container turning to liquid - the consistency of thin gravy. All the colors. From top to bottom.

When you tip the container sideways, it just POURS out into a puddle. If you jiggle it even a little, the colors swirl together and mingle. It's LIQUID.

So, being that it was lugged in the car, stopping and going, turning around corners, etc. and then you tilt your fatmax and roll it up the curb and over the bumpy grass to your spot halfway down the market lane... well, you can imagine the end result.

Not the kind of swirls a facepainter is after! Lol! Even if they do firm back up, some of these are a total loss having leaked out all over the kit or mixed up into gross colors.
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Re: Liquified paint/split cakes! HELP!

Post by Denise Cold on Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:37 pm

That's heartbreaking...and a mystery.

D.
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Re: Liquified paint/split cakes! HELP!

Post by a face painting mom on Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:44 pm

Oh my goodness, what a terrible thing to have happen. This is the second post about silver in as many days...I wonder if it is something to do with silver. There was a thread about silver having a sooner expiration date and crumbling. It just seems like a possible culprit.

So sorry. We all feel your pain, I cannot imagine losing so much all at one time.
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Re: Liquified paint/split cakes! HELP!

Post by Tash on Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:41 pm

I'm wondering is it possible they were sitting on a hot part of the van floor?.. it would have to get pretty warm indeed for everything to turn to liquid.
I never leave me paints in the car for that reason.
I feel terrible for you... I would of freaked out in the same situation.

I'm surprised the Tag splits melted - I have had them in the full sun for four hours in 30 degrees C + and the worst that happened is they went gooy and kind of separated away from each other.... and they were fine for the next gig.
How baffling!
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Re: Liquified paint/split cakes! HELP!

Post by Manja on Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:54 am

Tash wrote:I'm wondering is it possible they were sitting on a hot part of the van floor?.. it would have to get pretty warm indeed for everything to turn to liquid.
I never leave me paints in the car for that reason.
I feel terrible for you... I would of freaked out in the same situation.

I'm surprised the Tag splits melted - I have had them in the full sun for four hours in 30 degrees C + and the worst that happened is they went gooy and kind of separated away from each other.... and they were fine for the next gig.
How baffling!

Hi Tash ~

The split cakes were in the top compartment of my fatmax toolbox. In the mid-section I have my Wolf white & black, Snaz red, and a few full-size rainbow cakes, plus a bunch of other random stuff. In the bottom section of the toolbox I have my full-size pallet case of DFX 32g cakes.

None of my other paints were even soft, let alone gooey or runny. Everything else in the kit is fine. It's just the split cakes which were the furthest from the floor of the van. And as I said - the van didn't even get very hot while we took a pit stop.

I've also had mine sitting in full sun and I've had them in a hot car and I've had them in humid (drizzly) conditions outdoors and I've never, ever had any paints turn to pure liquid under any circumstances.

It's just "baffling" as you said. That's why I posted here... wondering if anyone has ever had anything like this happen to their paints and what could possibly have caused it.

Very mysterious!
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Re: Liquified paint/split cakes! HELP!

Post by artyfacesbyluz on Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:45 am

This is a good question to ask Rebeca, she is the arty cake creator, my kryolan melt specially the blue, but the color next to it doesn't so they don't mix.
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Re: Liquified paint/split cakes! HELP!

Post by Manja on Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:45 am

Is Rebeca here on the forum or would I get ahold of her thru SF or ?
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Re: Liquified paint/split cakes! HELP!

Post by artyfacesbyluz on Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:30 pm

Yes she is in the forum "rebecca" I think if you pm her, will be a faster way to get in touch.
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Re: Liquified paint/split cakes! HELP!

Post by Manja on Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:39 am

Thank you. I will try to touch base with Rebecca and see if she has any idea what may have caused the problem. Most of the cakes are hardening back up, but a couple are still very soft and tacky. Of course, the ones that were all swirled together are not going to be good for much anyway, I don't think. We'll see.
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Re: Liquified paint/split cakes! HELP!

Post by Peachymango on Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:26 am

I've had Kryolan melt but that was in direct heat on a 40c plus day. Haven't had any others melt.
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Re: Liquified paint/split cakes! HELP!

Post by Manja on Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:43 am

UPDATE: I talked with Heather at Silly Farm who suggested it had to be moisture and/or heat that would cause the paints to turn to liquid.

I connected with Rebecca with AC and she spent a lot of time troubleshooting, doing experiments with her own paints, and brainstorming what could have caused it. She was very helpful, supportive, and sincerely tried to duplicate what occurred.

My husband came home from a business trip and suggested that since some of the paints had been used, there was a bit of moisture in them. They were all tightly enclosed (albeit without their lids on) inside the top compartment of the large FATMAX, traveling in the very back of the van, by the rear window. The top of the toolbox would be exposed to direct sunlight as we traveled, and although it was not a very warm day, the sun shining through the window, onto a black toolbox, all closed up... well, it acted like a sauna.

So, even the paints that had not been used were affected by the trapped heat and moisture that existed in that environment.

I am thankful for everyone who lended support and offered help in determining what happened. No one wants to lose their paints like this!

LESSON LEARNED: Allow air to circulate freely around the paints if there is ANY moisture or heat involved.

As I've said all along - there wasn't much moisture at all and it was only 70 degrees outside! But, the sun shining in on the toolbox did the trick.

From now on, when I transport my toolbox, I will be putting it as far away from the windows as possible. And I will leave the lid open as much as possible.
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Re: Liquified paint/split cakes! HELP!

Post by zenbyfire on Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:16 am

i had that happen when a friend got me so crapy tulip paints and i had it covering every thing in my kit it too me ages to get it cleaned.. and a few of my DFX splits i made melted the next week.. and it wasnt extrealy hot thankfuly they where all complametary colors so i mixed them into solid colors that went quickly people loved them haha.. but i have no clue why mine where in the car for less then 15 min.

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Re: Liquified paint/split cakes! HELP!

Post by fesspenter on Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:06 am

On a really hot day, I will travel with frozen ice packs to keep my drinks cold. I think I should put them in my FatMax! I am sorry that your lovely splits melted into swirls of goo.
Lesson learned about sun shining through a van window.
Yikes!
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Re: Liquified paint/split cakes! HELP!

Post by Manja on Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:45 am

zenbyfire wrote:i had that happen when a friend got me so crapy tulip paints and i had it covering every thing in my kit it too me ages to get it cleaned.. and a few of my DFX splits i made melted the next week.. and it wasnt extrealy hot thankfuly they where all complametary colors so i mixed them into solid colors that went quickly people loved them haha.. but i have no clue why mine where in the car for less then 15 min.

What a nightmare! I've noticed it really doesn't take long for paints to get soft, go gooey, and melt to liquid when there is heat involved with moist paint. Out of curiosity I did an experiment and put a barely dampened cake near a heat register in my bathroom. 5 minutes later it was liquid.

So... If you ever want to turn your paint to liquid on purpose for some reason, mist paint and apply gentle blow dryer. Wink
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Re: Liquified paint/split cakes! HELP!

Post by Manja on Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:50 am

fesspenter wrote:On a really hot day, I will travel with frozen ice packs to keep my drinks cold. I think I should put them in my FatMax! I am sorry that your lovely splits melted into swirls of goo.
Lesson learned about sun shining through a van window.
Yikes!
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Most excellent idea, Lisa! I think I heard one of the Wolfe bros. (or maybe it was someone else on FABAtv) saying that he rotates his paints through an ice filled cooler during really hot summer outdoor gigs. That got me thinking about using dry ice in my fatmax and underneath my pallets on really hot days. Just keep extra ice on hand in a cooler and everything is safe and SOLID! yay Smile
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Re: Liquified paint/split cakes! HELP!

Post by Manja on Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:53 am

And thanks for empathizing with me about my paints. Glad I was traveling solo on this one! Could have been the whole team losing paint at once. Glad it was just one of us and we could all avoid same mistake in the future.
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